The EV news thread 🔌

Nineradvocate · January 6, 2022, 5:13pm

You have an absolute obsession with me and it’s frankly uncomfortable.

The study reported that at 20 degrees, the average driving range fell by 12 percent when the car’s cabin heater was not used. When the heater was turned on, the range dropped by 41 percent.

Same as an ICE vehicle, you keep the doors closed, and huddle up for body heat. Occasionally, you engage the heater. As I said, some EVs have very efficient heater units so it’ll be even less of a problem than others.

How does it work?

An engine or motor wastes energy creating heat as a by product of it’s operation. A highly efficient electric motor produces very little heat so the air temperature must be raised by some other means. In early EVs, this meant the use of a simple resistive heater like the one found in a fan heater or electric fire. This was a superbly inefficient use of power and something that manufacturers quickly strived to move away from.

All modern EVs prefer the use of a heat pump system. This is a familiar heating system to anyone interested in eco-homes or sustainable building. A heat pump works very much like an air conditioner and is capable of moving heat into the cabin at efficiencies over 100%.

That’s not going to kill anyone that wouldn’t already be in trouble with a gas vehicle that will also burn it’s fuel supply if you try to use it to stay warm. Much less efficiently too.

I watched a guy spend a night in a non insulated panel van the other day on YouTube, in colder conditions than I95. It got cold as hell but he survived.

The number 1 survival factor is just not being stupid. If you manage your resources well, something like being stuck in a vehicle is a non issue. The conditions that would make it a serious threat are both exceedingly rare, usually avoidable with common sense planning, and a threat to anyone in an ICE vehicle too.

I wouldn’t make an EV my daily driver in Alaska or Antarctica, not without installing a separate heating system. Major epiphany there.

Also, if you are convinced that you are going to freeze to death in an EV, then don’t buy one. No one is making you.

Meanwhile, I will appreciate one less person in the buying pool.

And, FWIW, I am done engaging with you on this. I will continue posting in this thread, but not in response to you. Been down that road too many times.

anon80335937 · January 6, 2022, 5:46pm

You reply to me initially and then accuse me of an obsession???

It’s just not the same scenario. If you took a vote and asked people if they were going to be stranded in sub-freezing temps in their cars for 12-16 hours and let them choose an ICE or an EV you’d get 99% ICE. I’m not saying don’t buy EVs but there are scenarios where they are clearly inferior to ICE. That’s one.

ninermac · January 6, 2022, 5:55pm

I’ve got the Fiat 500e and I love it. You have to go in knowing that it’s nothing more than a commuter or running errands kind of car.

My next will be the Mini convertible planned for 2025 which is just about the time my son hits 16. I see a used 500e in his future

I do miss my Abarth manual though. I bought it knowing it would probably be my last. I’m sure my neighbors are happy I no longer have it.

anon80335937 · January 6, 2022, 6:19pm

I have a short commute to my office so ab EV would be perfect. Hopefully the price point and style both become a little more to my liking soon. Beats driving the Yukon everyday to work

ninermac · January 6, 2022, 6:45pm

The 500e would fit in the back of your Yukon, but those things were crazy cheap off lease just before Covid. You could pick them up as cheap as 6-7k in some places. Got mine from Carvana. It doesn’t have the soul of my Abarth, but it can be just as fun. With those low rolling resistance tires, gotta be careful on take offs.

Bonus is he electric conversion was done by Bosch on them, so I have a little more confidence in it.

ghostofclt · January 6, 2022, 9:06pm

clt is buying a Rivian, and will host a tailgate on 77 during the next blizzard

anon80335937 · January 6, 2022, 9:30pm

I am not an early adopter and the infrastructure isn’t there to support EVs currently. We are at least 5-10 years off from EVs making up 15-20% of new car sales much less total cars on the road. In Norway, EVs make up 65-75% of new car sales but only 20% of the total on the road.

However, I think once folks in the US are able to get over the stigma, they will become extremely popular and hopefully, all the kinks will be worked out by then.

Cities such as NYC, LA, Chicago, and Houston would certainly make sense for EVs. They will transition quickly. Places like Pittsburg, KS will be a bit slower.

Nineradvocate · January 6, 2022, 10:55pm

I’d love to see that… those are badass.

One of my favorite things about buying an EV is that I don’t need extensive “infrastructure”. EVs aren’t meant to be charged at a “gas station” like charge point. They are primarily meant to be charged at home. For a large cross section of Americans with garages, they will do nearly all of their charging every night and start out with a “full tank” each day.

Never having to stop at a gas station again, especially just doing the weekday commutes, is a little slice of heaven. As is the drastic reduce in maintenance and complexity. They definitely make sense for a lot of urban and suburban folks, which per the US census, is most of us.

My neighbor has had a Tesla for 4 years now. Says he rarely ever has to charge more than 15% in a day and he slow charges it at night.

anon80335937 · January 9, 2022, 3:47am

MeanJoeGreen · January 9, 2022, 4:40am

Bingo! Dead clinging to their ev’s. People think Americans cling to their bibles and their guns, but do not underestimate the majority loving their fossil fuel burners of all sorts.

MeanJoeGreen · January 9, 2022, 4:41am

Unhinged at times

anon80335937 · January 9, 2022, 5:52am

It’s best to keep an electric vehicle garaged when not in use to help shield it from the elements. If your garage at home and/or parking space at work is heated, so much the better. Keep the vehicle plugged in at all times to ensure the battery will maintain a full charge. If your vehicle has a pre-conditioning feature, engage it (usually via a smartphone app) before hitting the road. This will heat both the interior and the battery pack while the vehicle is plugged into the charger, which will in turn help preserve battery capacity. Some models will warm the battery automatically in cold weather. If you’re away from home, park the car in the sun to keep it a bit warmer.

Limit the use of the heater while driving. Set the temperature as low as you can comfortably stand, and instead rely on your car’s heated seats and heated steering wheel (if so equipped), which consume less electricity. Wear warm clothes and a heavy coat so you can minimize engaging the climate control. In the aforementioned AAA study, the electric vehicles tested only lost an average of about 12 percent of range in the cold while running with their heaters switched off, compared to 41 percent with the climate control in use.

A lot of stuff here. Park in a garage, park in the sun, don’t use the heater, wear a heavy coat. Wow. Need to get these issues resolved for widespread adoption.

ghostofclt · January 9, 2022, 1:33pm

coal GIF

ninermac · January 9, 2022, 2:55pm

In reality, it would be much better if hybrids had been more of a thing. If instead of EV or ICE, everyone drove a car that could hold enough charge for say 50 miles, it would be much better. That would cover a lot of daily driving and the resources needed to create one Tesla battery could be dispersed to 6 or more cars.

The Volt and the RAV4 Prime are the best examples. It’s what we should have went for as a longer transition to EV. Not only would have been better resource and pollution wise, it would have also slowly helped many get accustomed to EV.

anon80335937 · January 9, 2022, 4:38pm

I agree. I think going directly from ICE to EV is a tall order.

Hybrids were just too expensive and didn’t make sense financially,

run49er · January 9, 2022, 4:40pm

anon80335937 · January 9, 2022, 4:55pm

Ford provided language that explicitly requires the buyer to agree not to sell, offer to sell or transfer any ownership interest in the Lightning within one year of purchase. If the buyer sells the vehicle within one year, they may face court action that includes blocking transfer of the car title.

Wow. This would be impossible to do if the original buyer paid cash. What a mess.

Nineradvocate · January 9, 2022, 4:59pm

The lightning has been sold out for it’s entire 2022 production run.

Amazon put in a 100,000 EV delivery truck order with Rivian, and just entered a big agreement with Stellantis for more EV development / supplying their needs.

For the average 2 car suburban household a PHEV + an EV makes sense. For city dwellers with access to charging, EV makes the most sense. Heavy commuters, any heavy mileage commercial usage, and rural area residents are going to be the last to adopt any EV whether it’s a hybrid system or BEV. We will need proliferation of solid state batteries before that is viable.

There is no light switch. This is going to be a very gradual changeover

For me, I have been on board ever since I tried out battery powered yard equipment 10 years ago. Now all my yard gear is battery powered and I will never go back. It’s just so much easier for me to maintain and live with.

anon80335937 · January 9, 2022, 7:13pm

Sweet trucks. Unfortunately they have turned their focus to the Amazon vans and with Amazon’s deal with Stellantis and Rivian’s inability to deliver this year, their future is murky now. Certainly dependent on Amazon and if Amazon doesn’t place the order for the vans, watch out. Stock took a pretty big hit lately.

But Amazon, which owns stake in Rivian, is not obligated to follow through on the purchase. When the EV maker filed for its IPO last August it specified in its regulatory filings the agreement with the retailer “does not contain a minimum order quantity or minimum purchase requirements,” and that purchase orders “are subject to modification or cancellation upon notice.”

anon80335937 · January 9, 2022, 7:19pm

The big insights come with the subject of intentionality. That is what consumers expect to buy next. In the U.S. fully 69 percent of consumers expect their next vehicle to be powered by internal combustion. Another 22 percent will go for some sort of hybrid. But still, amid all this, only about five percent of Americans expect their next vehicle will be a fully-electric, battery-fueled machine.

Telling