[I]Students at The University of Texas at San Antonio learned Thursday that a referendum to support expansion of the schoolâs athletics program passed with [B]3,031 students voting for and 1,571 against.[/B] The studentsâ endorsement of increased fees includes support for the eventual addition of a football program at the cityâs only Division I athletics program. [B]The percentage breakdown for the 4,602 votes cast is 65.9 percent for and 34.1 percent against.[/B][/I]
Its a proposed $120 increase. UTSA has 28,688 students. I wonder if Mike P thinks their sample is reasonable b/c their turnout percentage is way less than ours was.
UTSA admins will listen to their students. We have no clue how our admins will react.[/QUOTE]
Dude, there is a study being done. I think thatâs something. In fact, Iâm glad they didnât just decide to do it when the students passed it. They need to exam all of the situations and figure it all out. Itâs a big decision to make that hastilyâŚ
[QUOTE=ChevEE;259001]Dude, there is a study being done. I think thatâs something. In fact, Iâm glad they didnât just decide to do it when the students passed it. They need to exam all of the situations and figure it all out. Itâs a big decision to make that hastilyâŚ[/QUOTE]
Dude, its a no brainer. We could have put that 150k toward scholarships for football already as far as Iâm concerned.
[QUOTE=49RFootballNow;259007]Dude, its a no brainer. We could have put that 150k toward scholarships for football already as far as Iâm concerned.[/QUOTE]
Half assing the birth of the program would have been bad. The 150k spent thus far has been very good and a smart thing to do. It is a no brainer, but just because it is does not mean it should be rushed into. They are following the USF model to the T thus far and that is a VERY good thing. It also is more likely to gather even more student, state, corporate and alumni support knowing that all of the bases are being covered before we start things up.
The group COULD have been set up to simply rubber stamp a no from DuBois and ignore the student vote, but the minute Mac was put in control I knew this group was being given a legit shot.
Isnât San Antonio one of the mid-sized cities Charlotte is competing with these days?
I seem to remember them listed. As a matter of fact, didnât Mayor McCrory and the city council visit San Antonio recently? Sure sounds like a smart town to meâŚ
[QUOTE=NinerATL2CHA;259046]Isnât San Antonio one of the mid-sized cities Charlotte is competing with these days?
I seem to remember them listed. As a matter of fact, didnât Mayor McCrory and the city council visit San Antonio recently? Sure sounds like a smart town to meâŚ[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ninerID;258941][URL]
Its a proposed $120 increase. UTSA has 28,688 students. I wonder if Mike P thinks their sample is reasonable b/c their turnout percentage is way less than ours was.[/QUOTE]
They asked a different question, applying a specific number to the increase.
Go back and ask students at Charlotte, yes or no, is football worth a $350 a year fee increase.
I think itâs fairer to ask such a question, regardless of the turnout. And to call what was done a âpollâ of students is inaccurate, because the sample wasnât random. It measured the self-selected voters. What was the male-female breakdown of the vote? I would guess it was overwhelmingly male, but I could be wrong.
And, because I canât repeat it often enough, I hope you guys get football. I just believe in democracy. It bothered me, a lot, when the facebook stuff happened with people saying âvote the top level, you wonât be around to pay it anyway.â
[QUOTE=Mike_Persinger;259074]They asked a different question, applying a specific number to the increase.
Go back and ask students at Charlotte, yes or no, is football worth a $350 a year fee increase.
I think itâs fairer to ask such a question, regardless of the turnout. And to call what was done a âpollâ of students is inaccurate, because the sample wasnât random. It measured the self-selected voters. What was the male-female breakdown of the vote? I would guess it was overwhelmingly male, but I could be wrong.
And, because I canât repeat it often enough, I hope you guys get football. I just believe in democracy. It bothered me, a lot, when the facebook stuff happened with people saying âvote the top level, you wonât be around to pay it anyway.â[/QUOTE]
I actually agree. At the time, I said that we should hold off on the student vote until the feasibilty study was finished and we found out an exact dollar amount for increase. Then the students could vote on it yes or no.
Even now, you still will have people voting yes because they realize they will be gone before they have to pay for it.
How exactly did the vote Charlotte conducted not represent a democratic vote? Was there some sort of caging tactics being employed by the CFI that I am not aware of?
Every single student on campus was aware of the vote. Every single student had the opprotunity to get informed, get to the polls, and vote. They had a week or so to do get it done.
To claim that a random sample would be the better way of getting the voice of the students heard is crazy! Do we do random samples for Federal, State, and local elections? Bond Referendums? Of course not!
I think you were aware of the facebook âyou wonât be here so vote highâ campaign, so I guess you know about what I know about.
It was democratic, but without the information needed, including a specific dollar amount for the increase, to be completely fair.
Again, I hope you get football. But to say that vote was the be-all and end-all of student support is not completely accurate.
There should be another vote with a specific number after the recommendation and before Dubois decides. If that comes out in favor, youâd have all the reason in the world to revolt if he turned it down.
Mike, by the same token, a vote to just remove studnet fees from sports was not allowed. I am sure many of the voters who said $0 would also rather have money taken away from what they already pay towards athletics.
Youre right it wasnt a yes or no vote, it was a no or how much vote instead. Zero was a no, 100+ is considered a yes. I would have much rather prefered a solid $200 up and down, yes or no vote (i donât know where you get $350 from). I honestly think the way the vote was, was unfair to football. Many students probably thought, âfootball canât be that much, and I think 50 is enough, i just want football, not really ohio state levelâ. Up and down, yes or no, i think were looking at the results to be just that more overwhelming.
For the first time, students had an open way to voice their opinion. It wasnât the most statistical way of doing it, but the results donât lie.
I am glad you are pro football.
also, please donât forget the accounts of students saying their professors telling them to vote no b/c the money would hurt the education benefits of the university.
[QUOTE=Mike_Persinger;259084]I think you were aware of the facebook âyou wonât be here so vote highâ campaign, so I guess you know about what I know about.
It was democratic, but without the information needed, including a specific dollar amount for the increase, to be completely fair.
Again, I hope you get football. But to say that vote was the be-all and end-all of student support is not completely accurate.
There should be another vote with a specific number after the recommendation and before Dubois decides. If that comes out in favor, youâd have all the reason in the world to revolt if he turned it down.[/QUOTE]
So take another vote⌠with a specified amount and guess what⌠there will STILL be students who will vote high because they wonât have to pay it. If I am a senior then I am not really concerned about it. It had all the information needed, just not all the details in how it will play out. As far as I am concerned the students have said yes they want a team and any further vote is just delaying the matter. The fact that students have had a say in things thus far is fantastic, but the school certainly does not come asking the students on everything they do. If the the school deems that football is the right thing to do, they have findings from the group, die hard alumni and a student vote to back them.
I understand what you are saying Mike, but that IS democracy in action. People on each side find something that gives them an advantage. Politicians put homeless people on buses to vote for them. The facebook campaign simply brought to some peopleâs attention what most already knew, which is if you are a JR or SR you are not going to have to pay for this. Every student had a chance at this vote and if people were really upset by the prospect of football or the top fee then even more would have voted against football totally. I get what you are saying, but I but zero weight in it.
[QUOTE=Mike_Persinger;259084]I think you were aware of the facebook âyou wonât be here so vote highâ campaign, so I guess you know about what I know about.
It was democratic, but without the information needed, including a specific dollar amount for the increase, to be completely fair.
Again, I hope you get football. But to say that vote was the be-all and end-all of student support is not completely accurate.
There should be another vote with a specific number after the recommendation and before Dubois decides. If that comes out in favor, youâd have all the reason in the world to revolt if he turned it down.[/QUOTE]
Mike,
Not sure where you are going on this or why it rubs you so wrong? The facebook campaign was disingenuous in your opinion (full disclosure: I havenât the first clue what facebook is/was/does). How is the manner that this vote conducted different than any election we have. When the hell has anyone ever voted in any public forum with all of the information in front of them? And for your issue with the âyou wonât be here to pay for it anywayâ mantra- Iâll remember that when Iâm working till Iâm 80 b/c the Social Security system is flat broke. Enjoy your SS while you have the chance :lol:
For the first time, students had an open way to voice their opinion. It wasn't the most statistical way of doing it, but the results don't lie.
I would even argue that the statistics involved were pretty goodâŚ
per HappycamperâŚ
You can say that a sample isn't random enough, but when you have a sample size of 8300 then you can plug that into any statistics calculator with a population size of 21519 you see that you get a 99% confidence interval and 1.1% confidence level. That's about as good as statistics get.
I just dont get Mikeâs argument at all. Even if you dont agree with the wordingâŚstudents still had the option of voting for zero, or the smallest amount possible for football. The majority didnt. Those who chose not to vote have no say in the matter. They had their time to have their voice heard.
[QUOTE=ninerID;259087] (i donât know where you get $350 from). [/QUOTE]
Itâs actually $300, per this excerpt from a May story by David Scott:
Spease estimated the program would break even with another $8.9 million in revenues, including $5.9 million based in student-fee increases. Other revenue would come from nonconference away-game guarantees, ticket sales and corporate and donor support.
[QUOTE=Mike_Persinger;259098]Itâs actually $300, per this excerpt from a May story by David Scott:
Spease estimated the program would break even with another $8.9 million in revenues, including $5.9 million based in student-fee increases. Other revenue would come from nonconference away-game guarantees, ticket sales and corporate and donor support.
The fee increase amounts to $300 per student.[/QUOTE]
That is assuming less than 20K in students, the university is growing at near breakneck speed.
IMO, there are a lot of good points brought up here.
Namely:
This vote was no different than any political vote that decides the future of our country which is inarguably vastly more important than a football vote. Presidential, congressional, and local votes all work the same way. The people most passionate about the issue vote, and the ones who donât care donât vote⌠Thatâs their fault and theyâre stuck with the consequences. They had a chance to vote. There are also voters who are better informed than others as to how the system works.
These are all college students and it is reasonable enough to assume they are smart enough to realize these facts.
The statistical computations provided by Happycamper donât lie.
[B]3) People who have not attended this university will still get to vote on the football team.[/B] They will do it with their dollars and their intentions to attend here or another institution. If they donât like paying for football through student fees (as all other institutions have their students do), then they are free to CHOOSE (vote for) another institution to attend⌠one that does not have a football team perhaps⌠if they can find one of those that will actually suit them.
I would be willing to bet the prospective students will still choose Charlotte every time⌠perhaps even more so with a football team.
We cannot poll perspective students (currently 13 year lolds assuming a 2012 start date) on whether or not they want football at Charlotte. Now, THAT would be ridiculous.