[QUOTE=CharSFNiners;383487]I don’t know about Ricky Williams, b/c up until you mentioned him I never knew he even tried baseball. What you mentioned were two guys that couldn’t hit the ball, sorry but in my opinion, that’s not athleticism. It is timing, focus, hand eye coordination, and bat speed. Having a 40" vert or being able to run a 4.2 40 is not going to help you at the plate. Good try though.
I’m not saying baseball players are not athletes and I will agree that a good MLB CF is a high level athlete, on par with many other sports. I’m just saying if you take a summation of athletic ability from every position they’re not equivalent to other sports.
I hope you’ve played soccer at a decent level and not on a rec league team. I played against guys who eventually went on to play at Wake, Chapel Hill, and UVA (not slouches at the collegiate level). These guys could easily run 40 times on par with NFL players, had verticals very similar to NBA players and are required to have the stamina that outlasts any other sport. MLS may have been a bad comparison since outside of a few players is essentially a minor league compared to the top leagues in Europe.
Fabio, Renaldo, Beckham? Soccer is the dominate sport in their countries, so yea I don’t expect them to play baseball. Deion was also a standout in track and field at the collegiate level as well, and I want to say Bo was too, but I can’t say for sure.
As you somewhat eluded to with your NFL comment, certain sports require certain athletic abilities and among positions in those sports some require more athletic ability. I just feel baseball as a whole is at the lesser end.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=CharSFNiners;383487]I don’t know about Ricky Williams, b/c up until you mentioned him I never knew he even tried baseball. What you mentioned were two guys that couldn’t hit the ball, sorry but in my opinion, that’s not athleticism. It is timing, focus, hand eye coordination, and bat speed. Having a 40" vert or being able to run a 4.2 40 is not going to help you at the plate. Good try though.
I’m not saying baseball players are not athletes and I will agree that a good MLB CF is a high level athlete, on par with many other sports. I’m just saying if you take a summation of athletic ability from every position they’re not equivalent to other sports.
I hope you’ve played soccer at a decent level and not on a rec league team. I played against guys who eventually went on to play at Wake, Chapel Hill, and UVA (not slouches at the collegiate level). These guys could easily run 40 times on par with NFL players, had verticals very similar to NBA players and are required to have the stamina that outlasts any other sport. MLS may have been a bad comparison since outside of a few players is essentially a minor league compared to the top leagues in Europe.
Fabio, Renaldo, Beckham? Soccer is the dominate sport in their countries, so yea I don’t expect them to play baseball. Deion was also a standout in track and field at the collegiate level as well, and I want to say Bo was too, but I can’t say for sure.
As you somewhat eluded to with your NFL comment, certain sports require certain athletic abilities and among positions in those sports some require more athletic ability. I just feel baseball as a whole is at the lesser end.[/QUOTE]
Soccer: The sport to play if you feel the need to act like you have been attacked by an AK47 any time you are touched.
Soccer: The sport to play if you feel the need to act like you have been attacked by an AK47 any time you are touched.
Soccer: The sport you play when you don't make any other team.
I agree, the flopping is bad, but some would say it about basketball too.
Typical response I heard throughout HS. Too bad I also played basketball so it had nothing to do with not making another team. It’s fine if you don’t like the sport, but to knock it as not athletic, or on par with other high level professional sports, is ignorant.
I agree, the flopping is bad, but some would say it about basketball too.
Typical response I heard throughout HS. Too bad I also played basketball so it had nothing to do with not making another team. It’s fine if you don’t like the sport, but to knock it as not athletic, or on par with other high level professional sports, is ignorant.
Sometimes I think peoples irrational hatred for soccer gets in their way of thinking. I cant believe that anyone who has watched the sport for even a second would take a shot at the athletic ability of soccer players.
I agree, the flopping is bad, but some would say it about basketball too.
Typical response I heard throughout HS. Too bad I also played basketball so it had nothing to do with not making another team. It’s fine if you don’t like the sport, but to knock it as not athletic, or on par with other high level professional sports, is ignorant.
The top athletes in the world outside the US and maybe Dominican Republic play soccer and not much else. In the US, the top athletes play football, basketball, or track, a few with superior coordination play baseball, and a few top athletes play soccer. Better athletes play soccer if you include the world leagues…but who cares?
This argument never ends because it always depends on how you define athletic ability. Is it a combination of speed and endurance? Then soccer tops baseball any day. Only the top baseball athletes approach the speed required of the world professional leagues (MLS is minor leagues at best), and none of them have the endurance. Is it strength and hand-eye coordination? Baseball demands these skills more-so than soccer, and most soccer players would fare poorly at similar skills (though remember, the top athletes elsewhere, cept maybe Cuba, dominican republic, Venezuela play soccer).
People who try to point at the diving as evidence soccer players aren’t tough are really being obtuse. I assume they’re joking. You think guys like A-rod, Bonds, Sosa wouldn’t dive if it gave them any advantage in the game? They cheated to hit home runs, of course they’d dive if it helped them. Soccer players worldwide are tough as hell, as long as they are required to be. I do hope they start using replay to clean up the fakers and speed up the game.
Football players are worse. Bigger cheaters with no consequinces and generally bigger assholes.
and NBA players smoke the ganja and are even bigger asses than football players.
Tintin
[QUOTE=shagg49er;383438]I am slightly, he didn’t seem like someone who would do it, but whatever. More reasons why I don’t understand how you can watch or care about baseball. Boring, most good players cheat, and most are a-holes.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=ninerfan55;383469]their is no logic to that. these guys werent baseball players. i bet no baseball players could play pro football, basketball or golf.[/QUOTE]
Chris Weinke coundn’t play baseball and won the Heisman, Josh Booty couldn’t couldn’t make it and still played college football, JR House left a scholarship at WVU to play QB and got 15 AB’s in the majors. Mark Farris (did you know him Metro?) couldn’t make it with Piuttsburgh and ran the option at A and M. The Pirates All Star CF Nate McLouth turned down football offers to play baseball. I dare say a whole lot of good football players are playing pro baseball.
[QUOTE=Tintin;383520]Chris Weinke coundn’t play baseball and won the Heisman, Josh Booty couldn’t couldn’t make it and still played college football, JR House left a scholarship at WVU to play QB and got 15 AB’s in the majors. Mark Farris (did you know him Metro?) couldn’t make it with Piuttsburgh and ran the option at A and M. The Pirates All Star CF Nate McLouth turned down football offers to play baseball. I dare say a whole lot of good football players are playing pro baseball.
Tintin[/QUOTE]
Wow u dropped a Mark Farris, he was my 3rd baseman 2 yrs, and u tied in Josh Booty who we played (marlins) on a frequent basis. That said, Booty was an amazing athlete, he could run, had pop, and the best arm second to Jose Guillen I ever saw live. Farris was a medicre at best athlete.
Btw, athleticism to me is about proprioception. That’s the ability to sense where your body is in space and control it. That’s why many world class sprinters suck as WRs, all they can do is run.
Btw
College and pro scouts define athleticism by how much unteachable talent do you have. U can’t teach speed, height, jumping, or hand eye.
That’s what makes me throw out soccer. Yes there are some great athletes but most of soccer is learned behavior from 5-9 white guys who couldn’t sniff Larry Fitgerald in any contest but soccer. He’d beat them at 25 other sports.
Btw
College and pro scouts define athleticism by how much unteachable talent do you have. U can't teach speed, height, jumping, or hand eye.
That's what makes me throw out soccer. Yes there are some great athletes but most of soccer is learned behavior from 5-9 white guys who couldn't sniff Larry Fitgerald in any contest but soccer. He'd beat them at 25 other sports.
Do you mean soccer in the US? Exaggeration, though I agree the best athletes here do not play it.
Soccer worldwide? That’s ridiculous. If you watch world-class soccer athletes, they jump as high as Fitzgerald and run way faster than he does. Think about it this way: Every top athlete in Brazil, a country of about 200 mil people, plays soccer. The fastest runners, the highest jumpers, the guys with the greatest hand-eye (though really it’s foot-eye) coordination…they all play soccer there from a young age. Most of South America is the same. Same in Europe, unless you’re really tall. Same in Africa, with the exception of rare sprinters and b-ball players. It’s becoming true in Asia as well, though at least some Japanese athletes play baseball. As a whole, the sport of soccer has better athletes, based on your criteria, than any other sport.
Not really sure what height has to do with athleticism, that strikes me as more related to quirks of position or basketball.
[QUOTE=9erken;383554]Do you mean soccer in the US? Exaggeration, though I agree the best athletes here do not play it.
Soccer worldwide? That’s ridiculous. If you watch world-class soccer athletes, they jump as high as Fitzgerald and run way faster than he does. Think about it this way: Every top athlete in Brazil, a country of about 200 mil people, plays soccer. The fastest runners, the highest jumpers, the guys with the greatest hand-eye (though really it’s foot-eye) coordination…they all play soccer there from a young age. Most of South America is the same. Same in Europe, unless you’re really tall. Same in Africa, with the exception of rare sprinters and b-ball players. It’s becoming true in Asia as well, though at least some Japanese athletes play baseball. As a whole, the sport of soccer has better athletes, based on your criteria, than any other sport.
Not really sure what height has to do with athleticism, that strikes me as more related to quirks of position or basketball.[/QUOTE]
I agree with the Brazil theory. I was speaking in terms of US.
Anyways, almost every ss, 2b, and cf in MLB baseball have = raw abilities (cannot teach) as any nba gaurd or nfl wr/cb.
And the original topic of Arod, jerk he is, he at 19 was as fast strong and coordinated as any usa athlete- he was a freak.
And height is a major evaluation at every
US sport. Every sport loves a 6-2 deer.
I agree with the Brazil theory. I was speaking in terms of US.
Anyways, almost every ss, 2b, and cf in MLB baseball have = raw abilities (cannot teach) as any nba gaurd or nfl wr/cb.
And the original topic of Arod, jerk he is, he at 19 was as fast strong and coordinated as any usa athlete- he was a freak.
And height is a major evaluation at every
US sport. Every sport loves a 6-2 deer.
I think if our best athletes like Steve Smith, Chad Johnson, Lebron James, Kobe Bryant, Larry Fitzgerald etc were soccer players, then we’d be just as good as the rest of the world in soccer, but our best athletes don’t play that sport. There are guys around the world who if they played football, basketball or baseball their whole lives instead of soccer, they could have played professionally over here. We see that today. There are more guys from Latin America playing pro baseball than Americans. There are is also an increase in Japanese players in that sport. Also, look at a lot of the Europeans who are in the NBA. Football is pretty much exclusive to America.
[QUOTE=Charlotte2002;383451]Not to defend ARod, because I am not a fan, but if this is true then all of the other 103 people who failed the test should be revealed as well.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. If nothing else, it should be known whether they have or have not taken 'roids while/before they are considered for the Hall of Fame. I would not vote for a 'roids user for the Hall, but some will if they are “honest” about it. I use the term “honest” very tongue-in-cheek, as these users were very secretive and deceitful when using the juice and passing it off as “hard work” over the course of their careers. Now, when they are found out, everyone is supposed to forgive and forget and believe that those numbers would have been close to the same without the juice.
[QUOTE=Chisox17;383467]As long as my boy Frank Thomas is clean, I’m happy :biggrin:[/QUOTE]
He was big when he began playing. Who knows if he did them or not. As injury prone as he has been over his career, that would be the only sign. His size has not changed that much since coming into the league.
[QUOTE=wayton5646;383502]So there are going to be no consequences at all for taking roids? No suspension, no fine, nothing?[/QUOTE]
Only their reputations will be damaged, and hopefully their induction(s) into the HOF will get cancelled. Those will be the only penalties that will be essentially be assessed.
When you have a no-balls Commisioner as the head of your sport, it can get ruined in a hurry, or over a 20-year period. Thanks, Bud.
[QUOTE=metro;383548]Wow u dropped a Mark Farris, he was my 3rd baseman 2 yrs, and u tied in Josh Booty who we played (marlins) on a frequent basis. That said, Booty was an amazing athlete, he could run, had pop, and the best arm second to Jose Guillen I ever saw live. Farris was a medicre at best athlete.
Btw, athleticism to me is about proprioception. That’s the ability to sense where your body is in space and control it. That’s why many world class sprinters suck as WRs, all they can do is run.[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately for me Metro, I’m a huge Pirates fan. When you don’t win, you spend a lot of time trying to figure out where the help is coming from.
I feel like I saw him play (Augusta, Lynchburg?) in Greensboro and in Winston Salem.
I would also say that hitting a 95 mile an hour fastball is a skill that cannot be learned (much less hitting a good hook or waiting on a change up). You either have it or you don’t and it can only be coached if the skill is there.
The same goes with pitching. The difference between this and golf, is that you don’t have to be an athlete to be a golfer.
