CUSA - Perspective

49ers Basketball Forum 🏀
1

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]I decided to do a bit of research to spark a conversation. Are our expectations of the program now unrealistic due to our conference affiliation? Is a Charlotte program in the current CUSA an attractive destination for coaches and recruits?[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]The overall competitiveness of the conference is pretty weak and we have clearly been part of the problem, however our program has at least prioritized OOC scheduling to give try to achieve some sort of revelance and chance at an at-large bid within a truly awful conference. The same can’t be said about other teams in the league.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]That being said, I wanted to collect data on NCAA Tournament Appearances for all the teams in the conference and it is pretty brutal.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]Western Kentucky has the most appearances (by far) with 32, but their recent appearances have both been as 16 seeds.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]UTEP and UAB come in 2nd and 3rd with 17 and 14 appearances respectively. Both teams have had the fortune to receive At-Large bids in the Memphis dominated CUSA.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]Charlotte and ODU are tied with the 4th amount of appearances (11), with the 49ers having appearances in 2004 and 2005 with At-Large bids. ODU in 2010 and 2011 both as Colonial Champs.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]The rest of the group is rather pathetic, with only 1 At-Large bid on record (So Miss 2012).[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]The highest seeding in each teams last 2 appearances (if they had 2 me looking at FIA and FAU) by teams in the conference is Charlotte with a 7 seed in 2005.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]Given all of this, what makes this job so attractive? Why would a young up and coming coach want to leave an improved MAC school for Charlotte (other than the weather)? The MAC has a lot more recent success in basketball than the current CUSA.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]What should our expectations be? Any post season is ultimately better than no postseason, but is it realistic to think that this conference could be a 2 or 3 bid league? It was able to achieve that when its overall strength was better than the current group of teams and it had Memphis to carry the banner. I don’t see any programs in the conference having that ability.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=2]We are in a tough spot. Our only hope is getting a bump up in conference the next time there is a round of conference musical chairs, but I don’t think we are that attractive right now for that and if we can’t convince a new coach that we are I think you can stick a fork in Charlotte basketball for good.[/size][/font]

Conference USA 2.0 NCAA Tournament History.docx (14.3 KB)

2

CUSA is the next level up conference.

We can look at RPI and some history, but it doesn’t tell the whole story. When conference realignment has happened, CUSA has been where conferences have backfilled from. Conference USA then pulls top programs from the others. In fact, they grabbed from the MAC when they get Marshall and UCF. CUSA is a big reason the reason that the WAC doesn’t exist, and a reason the Sun Belt is a glorified FCS conference.

It’s happened that way too often for it to not happen again. CUSA is honestly just going through growing pains in my opinion.

Additionally, we have the formula worked out in Men’s soccer and Baseball. Football (which added 3 startups) isn’t doing half bad either. The formula for recognition is there. It needs to get added to basketball.
Division II scheduling needs to end this season. No more of that, period.
Division I scheduling needs to get better. Charlotte included. I get that it’s hard to predict Charleston would be 298, but NC AT has no business on the schedule.
it may be worth in the interim looking at how the MAC does their conf tournament. It’s pretty bad, but all but makes the top to seeds play in the championship game

3

[quote=“Charlotte2002, post:1, topic:29483”][font=comic sans ms][size=1em]I decided to do a bit of research to spark a conversation. Are our expectations of the program now unrealistic due to our conference [/size][/font]
[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]Charlotte and ODU are tied with the 4th amount of appearances (11), with the 49ers having appearances in 2004 and 2005 with At-Large bids. ODU in 2010 and 2011 both as Colonial Champs.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]The rest of the group is rather pathetic, with only 1 At-Large bid on record (So Miss 2012).[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]The highest seeding in each teams last 2 appearances (if they had 2 me looking at FIA and FAU) by teams in the conference is Charlotte with a 7 seed in 2005.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]Given all of this, what makes this job so attractive? Why would a young up and coming coach want to leave an improved MAC school for Charlotte (other than the weather)? The MAC has a lot more recent success in basketball than the current CUSA.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]What should our expectations be? Any post season is ultimately better than no postseason, but is it realistic to think that this conference could be a 2 or 3 bid league? It was able to achieve that when its overall strength was better than the current group of teams and it had Memphis to carry the banner. I don’t see any programs in the conference having that ability.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]We are in a tough spot. Our only hope is getting a bump up in conference the next time there is a round of conference musical chairs, but I don’t think we are that attractive right now for that and if we can’t convince a new coach that we are I think you can stick a fork in Charlotte basketball for good.[/size][/font][/quote]
You sound like you don’t think too highly of the progression of the UNiversity along with being the only major university within 80+ miles in a dynamic city, 2 major sports teams, with plenty of career opportunities. The only negative I see is a basketball program who just recently has suffered from lack of leadership. We’ve all seen the potential from the last 2 decades and as the old movie quote goes “build it and they will come” . I know dozens of people with no personal affiliation to our school, who attend games when we are good.
If we right the ship in this major media market we will be a very attractive school for a move up in conference affiliation.
It won’t happen overnight but I think there are plenty of schools who would rather be in our shoes.

4

[quote=“73niner, post:3, topic:29483”][quote=“Charlotte2002, post:1, topic:29483”][font=comic sans ms]I decided to do a bit of research to spark a conversation. Are our expectations of the program now unrealistic due to our conference [/font]
[font=comic sans ms]Charlotte and ODU are tied with the 4th amount of appearances (11), with the 49ers having appearances in 2004 and 2005 with At-Large bids. ODU in 2010 and 2011 both as Colonial Champs.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms]The rest of the group is rather pathetic, with only 1 At-Large bid on record (So Miss 2012).[/font]

[font=comic sans ms]The highest seeding in each teams last 2 appearances (if they had 2 me looking at FIA and FAU) by teams in the conference is Charlotte with a 7 seed in 2005.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms]Given all of this, what makes this job so attractive? Why would a young up and coming coach want to leave an improved MAC school for Charlotte (other than the weather)? The MAC has a lot more recent success in basketball than the current CUSA.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms]What should our expectations be? Any post season is ultimately better than no postseason, but is it realistic to think that this conference could be a 2 or 3 bid league? It was able to achieve that when its overall strength was better than the current group of teams and it had Memphis to carry the banner. I don’t see any programs in the conference having that ability.[/font]

[font=comic sans ms]We are in a tough spot. Our only hope is getting a bump up in conference the next time there is a round of conference musical chairs, but I don’t think we are that attractive right now for that and if we can’t convince a new coach that we are I think you can stick a fork in Charlotte basketball for good.[/font][/quote]
You sound like you don’t think too highly of the progression of the UNiversity along with being the only major university within 80+ miles in a dynamic city, 2 major sports teams, with plenty of career opportunities. The only negative I see is a basketball program who just recently has suffered from lack of leadership. We’ve all seen the potential from the last 2 decades and as the old movie quote goes “build it and they will come” . I know dozens of people with no personal affiliation to our school, who attend games when we are good.
If we right the ship in this major media market we will be a very attractive school for a move up in conference affiliation.
It won’t happen overnight but I think there are plenty of schools who would rather be in our shoes.[/quote]
Great Post

5 
         You sound like you don't think too highly of the progression of the UNiversity along with being the only major university  within 80+ miles in a dynamic city, 2 major sports teams, with plenty of career opportunities.  The only negative I see is a basketball program who just recently has suffered from lack of leadership.  We've all seen the potential from the last 2 decades and as the old movie quote goes "build it and they will come" .  I know dozens of people with no personal affiliation to our school, who attend games when we are good.  
          If we right the ship in this major media market we will be a very attractive school for a move up in conference affiliation.

It won’t happen overnight but I think there are plenty of schools who would rather be in our shoes.[/quote]
Mullins built a very solid foundation that Melvin and then Bobby were able to build upon, but during that same time our conference profile was increasing and at least under Bobby his big sale to recruits was our opponents more so than anything else. Now that foundation is long gone and our conference profile has been decimated for the last decade. Part of that is our own fault, as if we sustained the success from the early 2000s into the late 2000s perhaps we are in the AAC or at at worst we are at the top of CUSA, but that didn’t happen. I think largely because of the approach Bobby used of selling our conference more so than Charlotte itself. When he didn’t have a conference to sell is when we started to sh!t the bed and once the profile of the A10 improved we knew we were heading out.

All those things about the city of Charlotte are true and great, but that doesn’t mean our basketball program can become a top 40 program again. In fact, as the profile of the city has increased, our program has gone in the opposite direction. A large dynamic city has more competition for entertainment dollars, and outside of the campus the UC area leaves a lot to be desired in the way of entertainment and as a destination. Could that change with the light rail? It should, but I won’t hold my breath given the local leadership in that department.
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, the progress on the academic side of the University has been tremendous. The same can’t be said for the athletic side. While we did bring in football I believe it was to the detriment of basketball. Only time will tell if that is the case, but so far the results aren’t so good.

I wish I could be more optimistic, but there isn’t anything that can sway me in that direction.

6

Conference affiliation is only part of the equation. If the pay is better than what they have, if the facilities are better than what they have and they feel they have either an equal shot or better shot at post season and recruiting then it’s attractive. I really don’t buy the CUSA is crap line that everyone is giving out. It is up to us. Literally. Schedule smart, win most of those games and then go win most of your conference games. We have invest enough money into basketball to expect those results. Half the league isn’t even really trying with basketball. Does being in CUSA 3.0 make life a bit harder? Sure it does, but it isn’t as bad as you all make it out to be. The real question is would a coach at a lower conference say no to the money and hold out for a P5 school or do they come here? I think each coach is going to look at that individually and weigh their desires, needs and ego.

7 
 For the doom and gloom crowd what situation would you rather have?  Recruiting in a small red neck university town with no history of basketball success or a city like Charlotte.  Let's be real here.  It only takes several good players (and coaches) to chose us and it's game on.  We don't have to convince 30+ (like football) to turn the program around.  
 The last decade IMO suffered from Lutz's inability to recruit and Major's coaching shortcomings.  I know it's a little more complicated than that, but generally speaking I think we've been a little unlucky and I still say our ace in the hole is the city of Charlotte.
8

[quote=“73niner, post:3, topic:29483”][quote=“Charlotte2002, post:1, topic:29483”][font=comic sans ms][size=1em]I decided to do a bit of research to spark a conversation. Are our expectations of the program now unrealistic due to our conference [/size][/font]
[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]Charlotte and ODU are tied with the 4th amount of appearances (11), with the 49ers having appearances in 2004 and 2005 with At-Large bids. ODU in 2010 and 2011 both as Colonial Champs.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]The rest of the group is rather pathetic, with only 1 At-Large bid on record (So Miss 2012).[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]The highest seeding in each teams last 2 appearances (if they had 2 me looking at FIA and FAU) by teams in the conference is Charlotte with a 7 seed in 2005.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]Given all of this, what makes this job so attractive? Why would a young up and coming coach want to leave an improved MAC school for Charlotte (other than the weather)? The MAC has a lot more recent success in basketball than the current CUSA.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]What should our expectations be? Any post season is ultimately better than no postseason, but is it realistic to think that this conference could be a 2 or 3 bid league? It was able to achieve that when its overall strength was better than the current group of teams and it had Memphis to carry the banner. I don’t see any programs in the conference having that ability.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]We are in a tough spot. Our only hope is getting a bump up in conference the next time there is a round of conference musical chairs, but I don’t think we are that attractive right now for that and if we can’t convince a new coach that we are I think you can stick a fork in Charlotte basketball for good.[/size][/font][/quote]
You sound like you don’t think too highly of the progression of the UNiversity along with being the only major university within 80+ miles in a dynamic city, 2 major sports teams, with plenty of career opportunities. The only negative I see is a basketball program who just recently has suffered from lack of leadership. We’ve all seen the potential from the last 2 decades and as the old movie quote goes “build it and they will come” . I know dozens of people with no personal affiliation to our school, who attend games when we are good.
If we right the ship in this major media market we will be a very attractive school for a move up in conference affiliation.
It won’t happen overnight but I think there are plenty of schools who would rather be in our shoes.[/quote]

Yes almost every D1 program outside of the P5 and the big east

9

[quote=“73niner, post:7, topic:29483”] For the doom and gloom crowd what situation would you rather have? Recruiting in a small red neck university town with no history of basketball success or a city like Charlotte. Let’s be real here. It only takes several good players (and coaches) to chose us and it’s game on. We don’t have to convince 30+ (like football) to turn the program around.
The last decade IMO suffered from Lutz’s inability to recruit and Major’s coaching shortcomings. I know it’s a little more complicated than that, but generally speaking I think we’ve been a little unlucky and I still say our ace in the hole is the city of Charlotte.[/quote]
[font=comic sans ms][size=1em]That is all it takes several good players and coaches. That is a lot to ask for. You make it seam easier than it is.[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms][size=small]That being said, what does Hurley have to gain leaving a situation where he clearly has a good thing going to Charlotte where he has to start from scratch if his ultimate goal is to coach at the highest college level?[/size][/font]

[font=comic sans ms]I think a guy like Moton who is coaching at a clear conference level below CUSA would come to Charlotte to scale up, I don’t think a MAC coach would, not in our current position. I do think a retread coach would find our HC position interesting.[/font]

10

No coach should consider coming here. We have nothing to offer.

FFS. I cant stop you from saying stupid things. I can however note that with fans like you, we dont need detractors.

11

[quote=“NA, post:10, topic:29483”]No coach should consider coming here. We have nothing to offer.

FFS. I cant stop you from saying stupid things. I can however note that with fans like you, we dont need detractors.[/quote]

One bid leagues are well understood by coaches to be not-good gigs, given.

But, most leagues are one bid leagues, and relative to the others we’ve got a pretty big market and just have a bigger budget. Like, Charlotte is more attractive than NCCU. No?

We’ve got more money than most fans know. We can make a good offer to a good prospect.

12

We can be a regular NCAA contender in CUSA. First step is to put $ on the table for a very good coach. We need $600k+ bonuses.

13

clt says we are good enough, and lots of people like us.

14

[quote=“73niner, post:7, topic:29483”] For the doom and gloom crowd what situation would you rather have? Recruiting in a small red neck university town with no history of basketball success or a city like Charlotte. Let’s be real here. It only takes several good players (and coaches) to chose us and it’s game on. We don’t have to convince 30+ (like football) to turn the program around.
The last decade IMO suffered from Lutz’s inability to recruit and Major’s coaching shortcomings. I know it’s a little more complicated than that, but generally speaking I think we’ve been a little unlucky and I still say our ace in the hole is the city of Charlotte.[/quote]

It’s not doom and gloom but for now anyway cusa is certainly a detriment being a 1 bid league. I would rather be in a-10 looking to get into big East. But then I’m not a football fan. Who knows what the future brings given all the recent nuttiness. We could get lucky and cusa moves up.

15

[quote=“NA, post:10, topic:29483”]No coach should consider coming here. We have nothing to offer.

FFS. I cant stop you from saying stupid things. I can however note that with fans like you, we dont need detractors.[/quote]
Is that what I said? No. I said a successful MAC-like level coach is likely not coming to Charlotte to move up. There are clearly good coaches we can get from lower level conferences, non D1 schools, retreads or higher level assistants. Instead of calling people and their fact-based rationale stupid how about you stop letting your emotions get the best of you. Providing a fact-based argument is not being a detractor, it is just a sense of reality that most folks (including myself) wish we could ignore.

By the way, I keep hearing Hurley and DePaul.

16

There are plenty of good coaches out there, and many of whom could double or triple their salary by coming here. That alone is enough to get their attention. Our facilities are ok, the campus is incredible, the city of Charlotte is a big draw, we sit in the middle of a recruiting hotbed, and the cupboard is not bare. We just need to find a coach that can put the puzzle together. The pieces are strewn across the dining room table right now, but they are all there.

The fact that CUSA is not a good basketball conference means nothing. This conference is waiting for someone to step up and dominate it. Gonzaga (WCC), Memphis (CUSA 2.0), Butler (Horizon), SDSU (Mtn West), Wichita State (MVC), and Belmont (A-Sun) have all proven that you can be very successful in one-bid or two-bid leagues. You just have to whip your c*** out and smack everyone else with it. We need a coach with that type of personality.

17

[quote=“Charlotte2002, post:15, topic:29483”]By the way, I keep hearing Hurley and DePaul.[/quote]That wouldn’t be surprising. Disappointing though.

People keep looking at Depaul and thinking it’s got incredible potential due to all that success they had with the Meyers coaching and all that Chicago talent around, but I’m skeptical they can compete after Oliver Purnell failed so spectacularly there. He was a really good coach who had impressive success improving programs everywhere he’d been (Radford, ODU, Dayton, Clemson) until he hit the black hole that is currently DePaul.

18

It is not fact. It is an opinion. And it is a stupid, selfish one born out of frustration.

19

This. So this conference isn’t as good as A10 or CUSA 1.0 or the Metro but that doesnt mean squat if we go handle our business. Our best run ever came out of the Sunbelt. The conference is there for the taking - we just have to go seize it. We know we can do it - we have done it in every conference we have been in except for the A10 - no reason to think we cant do it again.

20

That would make sense…unfortunately.I cannothonestly say that our job is better than DePaul.Like us,they have stunk the last recent memory,they will pay more I believe,are in a much better bball conference,and have one of the most fertile recruiting grounds in the country.

With Hurley,the only reason I could see him choosing us over them would be “going back home”

Major and crew have done SIGNIFICANT damage to our ability to get a really good coach…and being in Conf. USA doesn’t help.