Gettum MKā¦I got your back. I also am tired of all the anti Bobby bitchin. Lets settle this behind Halton before the game on Jan. 8.
i have been a charlotte fan for two years and a member of this board one yearā¦ i canāt believe all the complaining and bickering from a board when the team is 8-2ā¦ iād hate to see the posts if we had a losing recordā¦ they must be horrendousā¦
Weāre 8-2, possibily 9-2 going into CUSA playā¦ Lets appreciate each āWā cause they are going to be harder to come by.
Can someone define āthe next levelā for me and contrast it with the current level we are at vs the level we were at before Bobby took over?
Before Bobby took over were we a consistent post season team?
Before Bobby took over when was the last time we won a conference tournamentd championship?
How many top 15 and top 10 teams had we beaten in the 10 years before Bobby took over?
Under Bobby weāve been to the NCAA tourney I believe 5 out of the last 7 years. How many had we been to before that? We also have 2 C-USA tourney titles and 1 regular season title. We have wins over top 10 teams (at the time we played them) and have seen our home attendance increase most every year since he took over.
Now, was that the level we were at before he came?
Uh oh, JK wants to fight.
Iām sure, however, that the same people who give Pi or Metro crap will let this slide.
I could be wrong but I believe he was being sarcastic.
Out of curiosity are you 49erpiās butt boy or something? You sure do stroke him every chance you get.
[i]Originally posted by Powerbait[/i]@Dec 29 2004, 04:00 PM [b] How do you think Ron Zook feels? He never even had a losing season?Or Dave Wannstadt, one losing season, but two 11-5 seasons and a 10-6 season? Lots of teams would kill for that kind of success.
Heck Nebraskaās head coach just got fired, with quite an impressive record.
I am not in the fire Bobby Lutz crowd, but I can understand where they come from. People donāt want someone who will just win, they want a coach who will take their program to another level. A lot of people feel like our program was heading upward quickly and that progress has stalled. I think Bobby has earned his contract, but unless he takes us to the next level consistently by the end of his contract, Iām not sure he will have earned the lifetime contract he would probably get.
Thatās the problem with hiring family, itās easier to look the other way if they arenāt quite getting the job done. Personally, I think all Bobby needs to do is get an assistant coach from outside the program. I think an up and comer in the assistant coaching ranks would not be a big problem and could help escalate our program to the next level.
I have a lot of problems with Bobbyās coaching, but itās not just him, itās the whole staff. Bobby does a lot of work with the team, but he doesnāt get to do as much individual work as the assistant coaches do. I donāt know where the problem is exactly, but we need a defensive coordinator and we need a disciplinarian. It doesnāt have to be the head coach (although I would prefer the disciplinarian to be the head coach).
Bobby has earned his 4 more years, or so, I just hope he gets it done. I like him, not necessarily his coaching style, but him as a person. But I also hope that if he never gets us to the Sweet 16 and we arenāt Top 3 every year in the A-10 that we consider the possibility of another coach. [/b]
I agree with pretty much everything you said. Bobby does make some coaching moves/play calls that I donāt agree with, but I am still overall I am still happy with where he has our program right now. Of course I want us to be a top 20 team every yearā¦ I know that wonāt happen overnight, but for the most part we have been moving in the right direction under Bobby. He is a great recruiter and since he is a loyal alumni I donāt think we have to be worrying about him using us as a stepping stone. Some new assistants may be a good idea thoughā¦ solid defense is the one thing that have been consistently lacking from all of Bobbyās teams and a new defensive strategy/assistants may be the solution.
Just out of curiosityā¦ what do you think is a realistic timframe/deadline that bobby should take us to the sweet sixteen by before we start considering making a coaching change?
[i]Originally posted by BigDNiner[/i]@Dec 29 2004, 04:10 PM [b] I could be wrong but I believe he was being sarcastic.Out of curiosity are you 49erpiās butt boy or something? You sure do stroke him every chance you get. [/b]
ouchā¦
I think that one is going to leave a mark.
Welcome aboard Big Dā¦lets fight back this negitivity with some quick wit. Beat these half empty men back to the bushes.
[i]Originally posted by MKNiner[/i]@Dec 29 2004, 04:08 PM [b] [/b]
[b]Can someone define "the next level" for me and contrast it with the current level we are at vs the level we were at before Bobby took over?[/b]
Bobby needs to take us to the Sweet 16. Some people feel he has taken us as far as he can.
[b] Before Bobby took over were we a consistent post season team? [/b]
No, but that was the natural progression of our team. It is all speculation is say that Watkins would have made us a consistent post season team, but I think most Niner fans would say that it is probable.
[b] Before Bobby took over when was the last time we won a conference tournamentd championship? [/b]
The Metro, Iām pretty sure. Again, this is attributed to the rapid progression of our team under our last 3 coaches. The Regular Season championship is the more impressive one, even if it was split with 4 other teams.
[b] How many top 15 and top 10 teams had we beaten in the 10 years before Bobby took over?[/b]
I have no idea, but again, I attribute success like that to the natural progression of our program, and hence the reason I support Bobby. He has kept our program going upward. Regardless, some people feel our team was progressing quicker under Mel than under Bobby.
[b] Under Bobby we've been to the NCAA tourney I believe 5 out of the last 7 years. How many had we been to before that? We also have 2 C-USA tourney titles and 1 regular season title. We have wins over top 10 teams (at the time we played them) and have seen our home attendance increase most every year since he took over.Now, was that the level we were at before he came?[/b]
We were a program on the rise, but we should be past that now. We should be a solid, Top 30 program right now. We should be a lock for the Tournament. It is not unrealistic to want a program that can contend for a national championship. Cincinnati, Louisville, Xavier and SJU have all fielded teams that draw serious national attention in recent years with a serious threat to win the National Championship.
Some fans are content with where we are right now, and how far we have come under Bobby, some people are dissatisfied and think Bobby has plateaued. Iām not sure yet.
Then again, who knows where we would be right now if it werenāt for the Dark Season? I love our team, and I will no matter who is head coach or how bad we are. That said, I do want a coach who will take us to the highest levels. The jury is still out on Bobby in my book, but I am just a fan like the rest of us.
[i]Originally posted by BigDNiner[/i]@Dec 29 2004, 04:10 PM [b] I could be wrong but I believe he was being sarcastic.Out of curiosity are you 49erpiās butt boy or something? You sure do stroke him every chance you get. [/b]
Iām not his Butt Boy, I think that is M9Hās job. But I would say I am friends with him.
[i]Originally posted by LutzFan[/i]@Dec 29 2004, 04:15 PM [b] Just out of curiosity... what do you think is a realistic timframe/deadline that bobby should take us to the sweet sixteen by before we start considering making a coaching change? [/b]For me? I would like to see it in the next couple of years. I don't think we should be a consistent S16 team right away, that's something for elite programs. I would like to see us make it to one or two, and maybe an Elite 8. If Bobby can do that, he earns another 10-15 years here in my book.
If he wins a National Championship, he earns a lifetime contract.
Folks, remember this: a mere 2 more points in the bama game and 3 more in the rutgers game and weāre sittinā in the top 15 and undefeated. Do we expect too much? I would like a Sweet 16 date this year myself. It could still come. Letās enjoy the ride. WHEEEEEE! :lol:
I donāt think we would be Top 15, probably Top 25 though.
[b]Bobby needs to take us to the Sweet 16. Some people feel he has taken us as far as he can.[/b]
I agree, however I donāt think many people here have an accurate appreciation for how hard that is to do. Regardless, I want to see him take us to one, and I believe he can.
[b]No, but that was the natural progression of our team. It is all speculation is say that Watkins would have made us a consistent post season team, but I think most Niner fans would say that it is probable.[/b]
So let me get this straight. Our success to date was a ānaturalā progression and had nothing to do with Bobby? So Curtis Withers, Rodney White, Cam Stephens, Iti et al would have just come here ānaturallyā because our team was just moving in that direction? Are you really arguing that our success as a natural progression and had nothing to do with Bobbyās coaching, recruiting etc.?
As far as Watkins you would āspeculateā that Melvin could have gotten us to where we are despite the fact that he went to a school with more name recognition, more resources, more $$$ etc. and was a total failure? I disagree, I donāt think most Niner fans would say Melvin would have gotten us here. And they certainly wouldnāt say it in the manner youāre trying to in some dumb effort to minimize Bobbyās role in where we are today.
[b]He has kept our program going upward. Regardless, some people feel our team was progressing quicker under Mel than under Bobby.[/b]
Iād be interested to know on what āsome peopleā base that on seeing as Melvin coached here a whopping 2 years and in no way had or surpassed any measure of success that Bobby has had. Iād say his 6 years at A&M would be a little more telling.
[b]We were a program on the rise, but we should be past that now. [/b]
Your premise is absolutely stupid. Weāre not talking about evolution weāre talking about basketball. Thereās no such thing as ānatural progressionā. There is progression through hard work and thatās how weāve gotten our success to date, much of it due to Bobbyās leadership.
[b] We should be a solid, Top 30 program right now. We should be a lock for the Tournament. It is not unrealistic to want a program that can contend for a national championship. [/b]
I would say we have been under Bobby minus our horrible season 2 years ago. However that being said I donāt think you have a clue how difficult it is to do what it is youāre saying we should be. Iām not content where weāre at, but I am realistic.
The kind of success youāre talking about takes time. And it takes even more time at our school like ours that lives in the shadow of the ACC and no where near the name recognition of other elite schools.
Bobbyās done a very good job for us. The numbers prove it.
Youāre right MK, thatās why my whole post was that we should give Bobby more time to do all that.
[i]Originally posted by 49erFan1[/i]@Dec 29 2004, 03:34 PM [b] I'm regrettably starting to lean towards the arguments of guys like Pino. We should be 10-0 and not have had any close games (except Bama). I would wonder what a coach like a Bill Self or a Tubby Smith could do for our program. I'm not saying go get Lavin or those other washed up coaches who weren't good. Our Athletic Dept. needs to be scouring some of the smaller conferences like the MAAC or the WAC and seeing if their are any coaching prodigies who we could scoop up. [/b]Funny, because I wonder what Bobby could do with their programs. Better yet, would Bobby be a better coach at Charlotte if He was able to land Kentucky's recruits? He actually runs the same system Coach K and Pitino run, but without the same horses.
Check this out:
HS Recruits
UL has 4 guys committed and is on the list of 4 of the remaining unsigned guys. Dook also has 4 commitments in the top 100. Weāve had a good year if we have one guy in the top 100. Our class for next season does not have a single guy rated in the top 100.
Bobby has been getting it done on the recruiting front. He has gotten a lot of diamond in the roughs and some great players.
Heās building a program, Iām cautiously optimistic about where he will take this team. So far, this team hasnāt shown the fire that our team had last year, but they are winning.
I think Bobbyās done a good job too. I just think itās difficult to compare his success with that of Tubby Smith and Bill Self.
As for Lutz being successful enuff to stay, I think as long as the program progresses heās earned the right to stay. At this point in time, to Lutzās credit, oneān doneās in the NCAA are not progress. Iām sure Lutz would agree with that to.
It would be nice to see this team start to focus and play to the level they can on a consistent basis. But a win is a win that Iāll gladly take. Itās just frustrating for all that we take two steps forward, and one back.
After all is said and done, I cannot think of another coach Iād want here other than Lutz. And Iām not trying to be an appologist. But it could be a whole lot worse than it is right now.
GO NINERS!!!
[i]Originally posted by Powerbait[/i]@Dec 29 2004, 04:42 PM [b] You're right MK, that's why my whole post was that we should give Bobby more time to do all that. [/b]So if/when he does that will that be the "natural progression" of our program or will he get some credit?
[i]Originally posted by BigDNiner[/i]@Dec 29 2004, 04:10 PM [b] I could be wrong but I believe he was being sarcastic.Out of curiosity are you 49erpiās butt boy or something? You sure do stroke him every chance you get. [/b]
Hey BigD, be sure to wear a name tag at the Niner Nation pre game party so I can answer that question for you.