La Sall Post Game

[punkrockcowboy]

[quote=“EE9er, post:98, topic:24861”]I think the problem with Deuce is the problem with all our players right now, consistency. I think depth is the main reason why our guards can’t be more consistent though, if one of them is having a sub par shooting night there isn’t anyone behind them to make up for it. Deuce in particular is either on or off.

On - Duquen, Forham, ST Bonnie, Orgeon St, GM, and GW.

Every other game his shooting was off for whatever reason. I really hope the added depth at guard next year whoever it is makes Deuce more efficient with the time he gets.[/quote]

I was actually thinking that Deuce was somewhat consistent, at least more than Derrio… not that that’s saying much. Either way I have a feeling our guards will get hot at least two more times this season.

Most shooters are off and on. Take Plavich for instance. It’s the rare shooters that are more consistent, take Leemire for example. He’s played in the NBA D league, and you know his consistent shooting has something to do with that.

When you have depth you can bench a cold shooter, or you can use him to do other things. That’s one thing I appreciate about our starting guards. They can do more than just shoot. If we had depth we could use Derrio to drive and dish, but we don’t have many scoring options, so sometimes he has to shoot. With that being said, I’d like to see him drive and pass out to JB or Deuce more often. KJ is developing a bit of a jump shot and that will help us as well.

[system]

@Powerbait

9-12 ppg for a guy off the bench would be insane. He would be a starter if he averaged that much.

Novak of Marquette averaged 11-12 pts off the bench, and 17-18 as a starter. I was hoping for Sirin to be a little of Novak. Maybe he still will be.

[Agent49]

@NinerFan

[quote=“Powerbait, post:85, topic:24861”]9-12 ppg for a guy off the bench would be insane. He would be a starter if he averaged that much.

Novak of Marquette averaged 11-12 pts off the bench, and 17-18 as a starter. I was hoping for Sirin to be a little of Novak. Maybe he still will be.[/quote]Please looks at Novak’s stat line, as a Soph he played almost 30 minutes per game. Gohkan will be lucky to get close to that unless he can figure out defense.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=10981

BTW, his intentional foul was abysmal on Saturday night.

[cdsniner]

[quote=“punkrockcowboy, post:101, topic:24861”]I was actually thinking that Deuce was somewhat consistent, at least more than Derrio… not that that’s saying much. Either way I have a feeling our guards will get hot at least two more times this season.

Most shooters are off and on. Take Plavich for instance. It’s the rare shooters that are more consistent, take Leemire for example. He’s played in the NBA D league, and you know his consistent shooting has something to do with that.

When you have depth you can bench a cold shooter, or you can use him to do other things. That’s one thing I appreciate about our starting guards. They can do more than just shoot. If we had depth we could use Derrio to drive and dish, but we don’t have many scoring options, so sometimes he has to shoot. With that being said, I’d like to see him drive and pass out to JB or Deuce more often. KJ is developing a bit of a jump shot and that will help us as well.[/quote]

Lack of depth has caused a lot of problems but it is not stopping Derrio from driving and dishing. He came here as a shooting guard in a 3 happy offense and that appears to be what he relies on at critical times or just what he does when he hasn’t shot in the last 2 minutes. Major said he wants him to be more than a shooter (I don’t agree he is one) so you would think there would be more of an emphasis on going to the basket.

If Luka, Mayfield, or even Nickerson can prove to be capable ball handlers I would not mind one of them starting at pg next year with their height and Deuce playing off the ball where I think he can be more effective. Who knows maybe that will light a fire under Derrio and he will realize he can’t shoot worth a damn and should try taking the ball to the hoop.

Have we tried this year to give Briscoe a chance at end of game situations? This Green dribble around for 8-10 seconds and hoisting a bad 3 shit isn’t working and it’s time Major tried another option. If nothing else Deuce seems to be a guy that would rather drive in the lane for a floater than rely on an off balance 3.

[PARMAN]

[quote=“ninerball49, post:80, topic:24861”]One or two mistakes from coaching or players can be completely made up by, say, hitting free throws…or, I don’t know…having 3 more scholarship players available including 2 huge senior contributors. Blaming this loss on the coach or the players that gave what they could given the circumstances is just ridiculous. Look around at how long it takes any given coach to turn a program around, and then throw in the variables and adversity that we’ve faced and you absolutely cannot ask more of this coaching staff or team.

Most important thing to realize is that if you knew as much as you think you know about basketball you’d be in it, not watching it[/quote]

Very well said.

[Mr_Bojangles]

According to the observer:

season-high 7,092 in attendance against La Salle

[Niner_National]

[quote=“Mr. Bojangles, post:106, topic:24861”]According to the observer:

season-high 7,092 in attendance against La Salle

[/quote]

Good to hear and sad at the same time.

[sokool]

[quote=“cdsniner, post:104, topic:24861”]Lack of depth has caused a lot of problems but it is not stopping Derrio from driving and dishing. He came here as a shooting guard in a 3 happy offense and that appears to be what he relies on at critical times or just what he does when he hasn’t shot in the last 2 minutes. Major said he wants him to be more than a shooter (I don’t agree he is one) so you would think there would be more of an emphasis on going to the basket.

If Luka, Mayfield, or even Nickerson can prove to be capable ball handlers I would not mind one of them starting at pg next year with their height and Deuce playing off the ball where I think he can be more effective. Who knows maybe that will light a fire under Derrio and he will realize he can’t shoot worth a damn and should try taking the ball to the hoop.

Have we tried this year to give Briscoe a chance at end of game situations? This Green dribble around for 8-10 seconds and hoisting a bad 3 s*** isn’t working and it’s time Major tried another option. If nothing else Deuce seems to be a guy that would rather drive in the lane for a floater than rely on an off balance 3. [/quote]

cds… I agree Derrio’s strength is using his athleticism to get into the paint. Thats where most of his shots should come from. (not the 3ball) He also gets fouled alot when he penetrates which means he will get to shoot foul shots which he also is good at.

The end of game strategy where Derrio goes 1on 4 with everyone else standing around watching has been scouted and is no longer going to surprise teams. Teams are loading up on him and Derrio is content to take 3’s which are the weakest part of his game.

[49erDrummer]

Not trying to be Debbie Downer here…but I’m having a hard time believing there were 7,000 butts in seats last night.

[NinerWupAss]

@49erDrummer

Not trying to be Debbie Downer here…but I’m having a hard time believing there were 7,000 butts in seats last night.

Agreed no way we had 7,000 people there

[system]

Everyone reports tickets sold/distributed, not butt-in-seats.

Well except Fed Ex Arena in 2004-2005, much to Coach Life Skills chagrin.

[Normmm]

@sokool

[quote=“contemptor, post:87, topic:24861”][quote=“sokool, post:69, topic:24861”][quote=“ninerfan55, post:64, topic:24861”]…

                          Pts             Reb       Ast

tu holloway 21 4.8 5.3
kevin anderson 16.7 3.0 3.6
tony taylor 14.0 3.1 4.3
deuce briscoe 13.1 4.5 3.4

Deuce is one of the top 4 or 5 overall producing PG’s in MAJOR categories to date in the A-10. :

Derrio is one of the leaders also in pts,ast, in conference play
…[/quote]
FG% FT% 3PT% A/T Ratio

tu holloway .450 .863 .364 1.49
kevin anderson .461 .701 .448 1.61
tony taylor .412 .659 .349 1.85
deuce briscoe .369 .798 .330 1.11

Listen, I know you know Deuce. I understand you will support him. I don’t dislike you, and am glad you have enthusiasm. But seeing these kind of comparisons drive me crazy. He’s not remotely in the same class with these players. If you’re going to play the stat game, post the whole story. None of us think Deuce is terrible. We support all of our teams players. But nobody on our team can compare with top players in the league right now. I couldn’t put Deuce or Derrio in the top 10 A10 guards this season. The only reason Derrio and Deuce are putting up 13 a game is because they chuck the ball up. There’s backups in the A10 that would score 13 if they were the only options on their teams and their coach didn’t mind them shooting 35%. Allen Iverson probably scored 30 a game in the NBA over his career and never won a championship. That’s volume shooting for you.

I’m sure if he had more talent surrounding him he’d have a better shot. I am optimistic for next year, and think Deuce will start and improve. But this year… I can’t brag about any of our players. Tough year.[/quote]

Contemptor I think your cool too. Your reasoning is most often based on facts unlike so many others on this board who throw opinions out there without the least bit of factual foundation.

In the end we are all passionate niner fans who want the best for our players, team and university. We just have different visions in regards to what success is and how our program should go about achieving it.

Respect for others and their opinions should be paramount.

Thanks for posting the pct #s as and from what I see other than FG% and KA’s 3pt# there is not much separation.

Deuce FG at 11.1 a game.
TT 10.3
KA 13.0
TH 12.0

IMO 11 shots certainly is not a lot and along the lines of any player who avg double figures.

Not bragging because your right there is nothing or no one to brag about when your team is 1-6 in conf…but there is also no reasoning to bash any kid on any team who brings 13/4/3 to the table his first year in conference.[/quote]

Like Contemptor said, don’t take it personal. People are pulling for Deuce. Just saying he’s got a lot of room for improvement.

There’s more than just the FG% and KA’s 3 point %. You ignore the assists/to ratio. He’s dead last. That’s got to account for something when you’re discussing PGs. He’s the 5th highest in the whole league for total TOs committed.

You mention his #s are right there with the elite PGs in the league. But he’s behind his own teammate. He averages less points, less assists and has a higher A/T ratio than Derrio.

Further, you’ve left off some other PGs from your list. What about Carl Jones at St Joes? 18 PPG, FG% 41%, Ast 3.2, TO 2.3
TJ McConnell 11 PPG, FG% 53%, Ast 4.7, TO 1.8

[Normmm]

@X-49er

[quote=“stonecoldken, post:95, topic:24861”]And the stat #'s on fouling 3 don’t matter over the whole country. What matters is our school alone. & our school alone is 0-3 in the last 10 months when we don’t foul up 3. That’s all that matters. & the 1st one was one of the contributing factos to your predecessor getting fired. If I get the HC job, I’m going out of my way to NOT do what got the other dude fired.

The outcome would have been the same or worse given the ole’ defense we were playing in the last few minutes of regulation and in overtime. Disregard the stats though, their 3-pt % was like 18% before they made that one. Sure he was more open than he should have been, but when a team is shooting that poorly you look like a bigger idiot if you foul and lose the other way.[/quote]

There’s just never going to be an agreement on whether you foul or not, when up 3.

The bigger issue to me was…Do you call time out?

Do you allow them to roll the ball all the way to mid court before the clock starts?

Do you not have somebody completely in #12s jock?

[stonecoldken]

I totally mis-spelled La Salle in the title. :))

[Normmm]

@Powerbait

[quote=“2k, post:94, topic:24861”]KJ has a ways to go to match Withers. I think KJ has a better jumper and will be a better FT shooter. He has a lot of catching up to do to be the rebounder Curt was.

KJ has a long way to go to be as good as a lot of big men we’ve had.[/quote]

No kidding. Let’s look at just this year.

Jones: Min- 21, PPG- 7.5, FG%- 56%, Rebs- 5.5, As- .6, Blks- 1.9, TO- 1.1
Sherrill: Min- 20, PPG- 6.9, FG%- 49%, Rebs- 3.5, As- .3, Blks- .6, TO- 1.3
Jones leads in every category.

Maxiell as a Freshman, 55% FG, 7 reb, 1.5 blocks!

[punkrockcowboy]

@Normmm

[quote=“Powerbait, post:96, topic:24861”][quote=“2k, post:94, topic:24861”]KJ has a ways to go to match Withers. I think KJ has a better jumper and will be a better FT shooter. He has a lot of catching up to do to be the rebounder Curt was.

KJ has a long way to go to be as good as a lot of big men we’ve had.[/quote]

No kidding. Let’s look at just this year.

Jones: Min- 21, PPG- 7.5, FG%- 56%, Rebs- 5.5, As- .6, Blks- 1.9, TO- 1.1
Sherrill: Min- 20, PPG- 6.9, FG%- 49%, Rebs- 3.5, As- .3, Blks- .6, TO- 1.3
Jones leads in every category.

Maxiell as a Freshman, 55% FG, 7 reb, 1.5 blocks![/quote]

Let’s look at where Sherrill is at the end of the year. He’s still developing. I really hope this game isn’t just a one time thing. I’d be really surprised if he doesn’t put up double figures several times again.

[sokool]

@Normmm

[quote=“contemptor, post:87, topic:24861”][quote=“sokool, post:69, topic:24861”]…

                          Pts             Reb       Ast

tu holloway 21 4.8 5.3
kevin anderson 16.7 3.0 3.6
tony taylor 14.0 3.1 4.3
deuce briscoe 13.1 4.5 3.4

Deuce is one of the top 4 or 5 overall producing PG’s in MAJOR categories to date in the A-10. :

Derrio is one of the leaders also in pts,ast, in conference play
…[/quote]
FG% FT% 3PT% A/T Ratio

tu holloway .450 .863 .364 1.49
kevin anderson .461 .701 .448 1.61
tony taylor .412 .659 .349 1.85
deuce briscoe .369 .798 .330 1.11

Not bragging because your right there is nothing or no one to brag about when your team is 1-6 in conf…but there is also no reasoning to bash any kid on any team who brings 13/4/3 to the table his first year in conference.[/quote]

Like Contemptor said, don’t take it personal. People are pulling for Deuce. Just saying he’s got a lot of room for improvement.

There’s more than just the FG% and KA’s 3 point %. You ignore the assists/to ratio. He’s dead last. That’s got to account for something when you’re discussing PGs. He’s the 5th highest in the whole league for total TOs committed.

You mention his #s are right there with the elite PGs in the league. But he’s behind his own teammate. He averages less points, less assists and has a higher A/T ratio than Derrio.

Further, you’ve left off some other PGs from your list. What about Carl Jones at St Joes? 18 PPG, FG% 41%, Ast 3.2, TO 2.3
TJ McConnell 11 PPG, FG% 53%, Ast 4.7, TO 1.8

Norm its all good never personal as long as its respectful which you are.

Carl Jones plays the 2 langston galloway plays the pg for them

Tj mcc imo would be in the top 5 also Deuce’s ppg is higher and reb are higher and Ft%

Would have included Derrio but I am comparing kids who play exclusively PG ,but Derrio is also producing overall at commendable levels

Deuce ast/to ratio not great but its not bad whenever its above 1 especially if you take in account the lack of scoring weapons we have compared to X,DUQ,RICH,GW

Deuce 5 in total to’s and tu holloway is 1st in total turnovers and he is the best guard in the leaque

Not saying Deuce has arrived and I agree he has a lot of area’s to improve. However i’m just illuminating facts that contradict the suggestion by some of our fans that our guards are not doing well, would be backups on a good team, are not D1 players ect

In conf to date Deuce avg 13 pts 4 rebs 3ast 2. to’s 38% fg 39% 3pt 76%ft

Hard to argue thats not a productive overall stat line for a sophomore PG half way thru conf play.

I believe we have some very good players on this team and I believe they will lead us to back to respectability in the very near future.

[contemptor]

[quote=“sokool, post:97, topic:24861”]Thanks for posting the pct #s as and from what I see other than FG% and KA’s 3pt# there is not much separation.

Deuce FG at 11.1 a game.
TT 10.3
KA 13.0
TH 12.0

IMO 11 shots certainly is not a lot and along the lines of any player who avg double figures.

Not bragging because your right there is nothing or no one to brag about when your team is 1-6 in conf…but there is also no reasoning to bash any kid on any team who brings 13/4/3 to the table his first year in conference.[/quote]
I deleted some of the quoting so it wouldn’t grow- glad to see you didn’t take offense. I try not to offend most people on the board that act reasonable…

I’m not bashing Deuce at all. I was simply responding to you grouping him with top guards in the league. The FG percentage and A/T ratio differences are pretty significant, with the latter being the most significant for a point guard. Unless you are mainly a scoring PG… which then the FG is the most important. If Deuce shot 43-44% OR had a 1.8 A/T ratio, he’d be up there. Not saying he’s not a good player, just not top 5. I’m not sure any player on our team is top 5 at their position, especially not our guards. If the players around Deuce were better, I’m sure he would have better stats. I’m just trying to be realistic. He’s definitely playing better than Green imo.

I really hope next year with some more depth and experience with Major’s system, that neither Deuce or Derrio has to be the man trying to score. I just don’t think either of them are that type of player who can do it and be successful. But if we have depth and play solid team ball, we’ll be far more successful next year.

[contemptor]

@49erDrummer

Not trying to be Debbie Downer here…but I’m having a hard time believing there were 7,000 butts in seats last night.

I’d say closer to 5k at most

[system]

The only thing we can do as a fan base is wait and see. We’ve never really had a complete roster at any one time this whole season. Coach Major will have at least 3 seasons to show that he can put an NCAA-caliber team on the floor and based on the types of players we are targeting on the recruiting trail and the improvements we’ve seen from KJ, JB, and Phil Jones (before he was ruled out) I think we can get there.

The rookie mistakes are going to happen, but the best we can hope for is that the coaches and players see in the film what they can do better and grow from the experience.