I call it a choo choo because for the "world class city" crowd it's the same as little 4 year old Nicky and the toy choo choo. Nicky wants the choo choo because his friend Tommy has one, and they're cool and hip. The world-class-city crowd wants one because D.C. has one, and they're cool and hip. Same concept as with Lynx, just bigger scale. If it was all about practicality and saving money on gas, people would ride the bus. But people don't ride buses, because they're not cool and hip like a choo choo train.
Isn’t there federal money paying for part of the south corridor line, or is that just going to be used for the rest of the proposed lines? If so, then yes the money is being forcibly removed from Ken’s pocket, even if he doesn’t buy anything in Mecklenburg.
good analogy
Federal dollars are paying for the South line. Federal dollars will not pay for the north line most likely, if the north line goes through they will need to use TIF money, short story, your property taxes will go up. The northeast line may or may not get federal funding, Dubois stepped in and allowed it to come on campus so the numbers (ridership projections) were higher to possibly recieve funding. The annoucement of “preliminary engineering” approval from the federal level at the beginning of November hardly means anything.
Federal dollars are paying for the South line. Federal dollars will not pay for the north line most likely, if the north line goes through they will need to use TIF money, short story, your property taxes will go up. The northeast line may or may not get federal funding, Dubois stepped in and allowed it to come on campus so the numbers (ridership projections) were higher to possibly recieve funding. The annoucement of “preliminary engineering” approval from the federal level at the beginning of November hardly means anything.
FYI…TIF uses increased property values within a specific district. The only way your property taxes go up is if you experience an increased property value, just like everywhere else. They don’t raise the tax rate in the TIF district. The improvements designated for the TIF funds are paid for using the increased tax revenue generated by the increased value…that is, if your land is worth $100,000 now, and goes up to $500,000, whatever property tax you pay for that $400,000 increment goes directly to the designated improvements, in this case a diesel-powered commuter rail line, I believe.
I can’t help but wonder what businesses suffered yesterday from light rail. I saw the manager of the Sonny’s interviewed at the light rail station at 485. He said business tripled Sunday due to the rail line. All those people normally would of eaten somewhere else, and others businesses had to suffer. All this is rail line is about is generating revenue in a condensed geographic area.
Speaking of paying nasty prices to park. Is it free to park at the rail line?
I believe there is a deck at 485 (S. corridor obviously) and it is free. Thought I saw them talk about it last week on the news.
I understand your gripe Metro, but I doubt any businesses actually saw a 1/3 of their normal crowd. The only real times that business is going to triple is on game days (Panthers) and in the morning and evening time. From 9-4 it will likely remain normal. Also, if it cuts back on sprawl then it’s a good thing.
Also, if it cuts back on sprawl then it's a good thing.
trains won’t reduce demand for 1/2 acre lots, better schools, lower crime, and lower taxes. Suburban life is good if you have kids, hence why so many people flock to the burbs.
I find it interesting that when I am working in DC or ATL, the trains run along the highways about 55mph truly giving you an alternative to driving (good idea!). However Charlotte’s train has a ton of stops going slow thru city blocks.
I could agree more with rail if the line ran from Birkdale south to the NC-SC line down 77.
this rail line was a money grab so people like Harvey Gantt can design city infrastructure for years to come along the line.
FYI...TIF uses increased property values within a specific district. The only way your property taxes go up is if you experience an increased property value, just like everywhere else. They don't raise the tax rate in the TIF district. The improvements designated for the TIF funds are paid for using the increased tax revenue generated by the increased value...that is, if your land is worth $100,000 now, and goes up to $500,000, whatever property tax you pay for that $400,000 increment goes directly to the designated improvements, in this case a diesel-powered commuter rail line, I believe.
in a perfect world, yes. But take the north line. Huntersville, Cornelius and Davidson say that development will be extremely lower than what CATS projects (imagine that). Now add to that tax incentives for people to come and develop (Scaleybark station…) its people who already live around the north line (me) who will end up with the higher property taxes.
If it comes from increased tax values, i hope its justifyable. If they go in and change the property tax value of my home to make numbers work, thats the same as an increased property tax rate. You are just changine the numbers around ( 3 x 2 = 2 x 3)
I love how the property taxes paid on my home have gone up every year fo rthe last 3 years, with no rate change.
[QUOTE=metro;271207]trains won’t reduce demand for 1/2 acre lots, better schools, lower crime, and lower taxes. Suburban life is good if you have kids, hence why so many people flock to the burbs.
I find it interesting that when I am working in DC or ATL, the trains run along the highways about 55mph truly giving you an alternative to driving (good idea!). However Charlotte’s train has a ton of stops going slow thru city blocks.
I could agree more with rail if the line ran from Birkdale south to the NC-SC line down 77.
this rail line was a money grab so people like Harvey Gantt can design city infrastructure for years to come along the line.[/QUOTE]
for some people no, but its more and more common people are actually moving TO the city and giving up that lifestyle in today’s generation. People want to walk everywhere, see people they know on the street corner, and walk with their kids down the street to the park. Fox Charlotte is running a special this week (I think) called the death of suburbia in their Defend Charlotte series. While suburbia will never die completely, we’ll see a gradual change over to urban life for a generation or two and then see a reemergence of suburban living. Many people want something different than what they grew up with and the majority of today’s 30 and under crowd grew up in the burbs. It’s the same reason people from the north love moving down here and getting big houses and yards. None of my friends want to have that because we all grew up with that.
[QUOTE=ninerID;271217]in a perfect world, yes. But take the north line. Huntersville, Cornelius and Davidson say that development will be extremely lower than what CATS projects (imagine that). Now add to that tax incentives for people to come and develop (Scaleybark station…) its people who already live around the north line (me) who will end up with the higher property taxes.
If it comes from increased tax values, i hope its [B]justifyable[/B]. If they go in and change the property tax value of my home to make numbers work, thats the same as an increased property tax rate. You are just changine the numbers around ( 3 x 2 = 2 x 3)
I love how the property taxes paid on my home have gone up every year fo rthe last 3 years, with no rate change.[/QUOTE]
expected development of south blvd has exceeded expectations thus far and there are already many developers waiting to build if the north line is approved and some are taking a risk by building already in hopes that it will help the line be approved.
expected development of south blvd has exceeded expectations thus far and there are already many developers waiting to build if the north line is approved and some are taking a risk by building already in hopes that it will help the line be approved.
[QUOTE=ninerID;271246]what kind of work do you do?[/QUOTE]
I’m just a student. Urban development is just something I’m interested in so I follow it pretty closely. I’m far from an expert on the matter, I just keep track of planned developments. Personally, I don’t care much for the North Line at the moment. While I think developers would respond reasonably well to the line if it were to be built, it doesn’t function at all like a light rail line. It serves commuters and offers no viable means of transportation to residents except to downtown during rush hours. That means people will still be driving everywhere if they’re going anywhere at any other time of the day. It would help keep some people off of I-77, but the impact would likely be minimal and probably not be as effective as widening 77 in that area.
[QUOTE=Sideshow;271261]when the hell are we gonna get the flying car? Back to the Future II took place in 2015, so hopefully we only have 7 or 8 more years to wait.[/QUOTE]
People can’t even drive right with their wheels planted on the ground, we don’t need them flying.
for some people no, but its more and more common people are actually moving TO the city and giving up that lifestyle in today's generation. People want to walk everywhere, see people they know on the street corner, and walk with their kids down the street to the park. Fox Charlotte is running a special this week (I think) called the death of suburbia in their Defend Charlotte series. While suburbia will never die completely, we'll see a gradual change over to urban life for a generation or two and then see a reemergence of suburban living. Many people want something different than what they grew up with and the majority of today's 30 and under crowd grew up in the burbs. It's the same reason people from the north love moving down here and getting big houses and yards. None of my friends want to have that because we all grew up with that.
well that might be your thoughtful take, its not happening. Take a drive thru Weddington, Huntersville, Ballantyne/Fort Mill, insert burb here, and you will see a different story. As I said above: low taxes, yard for kids, HOA pool, good schools, low crime, etc will always be in demand. A silly train won’t change it. (again I am not anti light rail, I just disagree with the premise it will stall suburb growth).
I would love to see some numbers on families retreating back to the city (want to link that?). I don’t see that in any of my oft travels. I think in the future you will see more urban style developement in the suburbs ie: Baxter, Birkdale, etc. People want plazas and coffee shops (euro sort of feel), but they are not going to move into the city for it.
trains won't reduce demand for 1/2 acre lots, better schools, lower crime, and lower taxes. Suburban life is good if you have kids, hence why so many people flock to the burbs.
I find it interesting that when I am working in DC or ATL, the trains run along the highways about 55mph truly giving you an alternative to driving (good idea!). However Charlotte’s train has a ton of stops going slow thru city blocks.
I could agree more with rail if the line ran from Birkdale south to the NC-SC line down 77.
this rail line was a money grab so people like Harvey Gantt can design city infrastructure for years to come along the line.
Well if the train doesn’t reduce the 1/2 acre lots, etc. I wouldn’t worry about the amount of business some locales do, b/c by your “train” of thought people will just go where they are accustomed to going. Some businesses will see an increase b/c people are switching from train to car or vice versa. When it’s rush hour traffic, how often do you pull off an exit halfway into your trip to grab dinner? I know I don’t, and I’d put my money on most people not doing it either.
DC’s method of the metro worked b/c it was incorporated during a large phase of it’s growth (not too disimlar from Charlotte). Looking at how the train line works for that area is more synonomous with how the early rail/trolley line worked in Charlotte, sparking neighborhoods like Dilworth and others. The problem is now, the rail will likely not spawn many new residential neighborhoods, but piece them together, leaving dead areas between everything. My true worry is that everyone will think once the rail line is in place that everything will just change in a few days. This thing will need to be marketed. Just creating the line will not alter development, transportation, or the city’s future. This all goes much deeper then a rail line and I think MANY, both citizens and politicians do not realize that. I’m very much for the line, but if they think the problems of Charlotte will be solved in one north/south line, with no additional help around that line, they will be sorely mistaken and the boo-birds will emerge.
I couldn’t agree more with you that the line should have paralleled 77 with a more secondary (yet still primary) line running with 85. In a perfect world from there, there would be feeder lines into the much larger residential areas if they were not already served. This would still keep most transportation centralized or atleast along main axis’ throughout the city, and would provide ridership similar to that of DC, as most of their ridership is from surrounding locales (Alexandria, Arlington, etc.).
I rode the train to the Panther’s game. I thought the train was nice and a much smoother ride than the bus. I rode the bus a few times and it was a horrible experience. Especially if you are trying to listen to music. I will say on the way back, we were packed in like sardines. I live close to the line and I’ll benefit from it and will probably try and take it to work. Not to mention my property value has increased quite a bit. I’d also like to take the time to thank all of the Charlotte citizens for their tax dollars in helping beautifying my neighborhood with the so called “neighborhood improvement projects.” It’s about time I got something out of my tax dollars, even if they built a sidewalk down a street that no one walks on and bike lines that no one uses!