Why would I drive from the University Area, back to Pineville, to ride the train from S. Blvd. to Uptown, when I can just drive to Uptown from the University Area, & then drive home to Pineville afterward?
And yes, even if it wasn’t out of my way, I’d pay more to park Uptown, even though I hate the concept of paid parking, out of consistency, which I guess you would call spite.
The last time I checked, we’re not the size of DC, Atl, or NYC. Mass Transit doesn’t work here like it does there. We’re not big enought, & we’re to set in our ways for our cars.
Hell in the USVI, there was a $1 bus, but the residents still drove there own cars despite gas being $3.89. And I know Charlotte drivers are more stubborn than ones in Charlotte Amalie, so why pay for what won’t be used?
And choo-choo’s are for little boys, not grown men.
And to proof that this isn’t a money grab, only Architects against the light rail should be allowed to build near it. If you let Gantt’s company build near it after he campaigned for it, that’s called a Pay-Off, which is illegal.
And what if the TIF doesn’t increase in value? Then you have to raise taxes.
[QUOTE=stonecoldken;271295][B][SIZE=6][FONT=Arial Black]I HATE THE CHO-CHO![/FONT][/SIZE][/B][/QUOTE]
I’m sorry, were you under the impression that we didn’t know how you felt about this subject?
I’m sorry, I thought I had the same right to an opinion as everyone else.
I guess I’m supposed to shut up & look pretty.
Whatever!
Anyway, are the businesses that donated money to pass it going to give back their profits they make from being near the rail line. We can’t have people profiting off of a payoff?
Are the people who voted for the train who had S. Blvd. property increase in value going to give back the increased profits, or are they keeping the Pay-Offs?
This thing is so dirty.
I can’t believe y’all don’t care that some people are making $ off of taxpayer’s $. That’s wrong.
The rail passed on lies.
The signs said that your taxes, the environment, & the bus service would be affected if you voted yes. 3 straight lies.
How can you celebrate winning dirty? I thought y’all didn’t think it was okay to cheat? I guess y’all were hypocrits that do cheat, but don’t admit it after all.
[QUOTE=stonecoldken;271295]
And yes, even if it wasn’t out of my way, I’d pay more to park Uptown, even though I hate the concept of paid parking, out of consistency, which I guess you would call spite.
The last time I checked, we’re not the size of DC, Atl, or NYC. Mass Transit doesn’t work here like it does there. We’re not big enought, & we’re to set in our ways for our cars.
[/QUOTE]nope but we’re growing and will have well over a million citizens inside the city limits and 100,000 in uptown in the next 20 years. Do you want to squeeze 400,000 more residents onto the already congested roads? We are pretty close in size to portland and they have a very successful system in place.
[QUOTE=stonecoldken;271295]Why would I drive from the University Area, back to Pineville, to ride the train from S. Blvd. to Uptown, when I can just drive to Uptown from the University Area, & then drive home to Pineville afterward?[/quote]I don’t know why would you? Do you commonly drive to the university area as a detour before going downtown? You never just go downtown?
[QUOTE=stonecoldken;271301]The rail passed on lies.
The signs said that your taxes, the environment, & the bus service would be affected if you voted yes. 3 straight lies.
How can you celebrate winning dirty? I thought y’all didn’t think it was okay to cheat? I guess y’all were hypocrits that do cheat, but don’t admit it after all.[/QUOTE]
Because those were likely true, especially about bus service and taxes. There were plenty of dirty tactics to get the repeal on the ballot to begin with.
[QUOTE=stonecoldken;271298]I’m sorry, I thought I had the same right to an opinion as everyone else.
I guess I’m supposed to shut up & look pretty.
Whatever!
Anyway, are the businesses that donated money to pass it going to give back their profits they make from being near the rail line. We can’t have people profiting off of a payoff?
Are the people who voted for the train who had S. Blvd. property increase in value going to give back the increased profits, or are they keeping the Pay-Offs?
This thing is so dirty.
I can’t believe y’all don’t care that some people are making $ off of taxpayer’s $. That’s wrong.[/QUOTE]
LOL, you are more than welcome to your opinion and I know that even if we didn’t want to hear it, you would continue. As for the train… I think it was a horrible mistake and think that we need to clear out any one from office during the time it was passsed and built. However, I think that we would uneccessarily exacerbate the situation by not using it. Then it goes from an incredibly expensive screw up to a grossly expensive waste of space.
The rail passed on lies. The signs said that your taxes, the environment, & the bus service would be affected if you voted yes. 3 straight lies. How can you celebrate winning dirty? I thought y'all didn't think it was okay to cheat? I guess y'all were hypocrits that do cheat, but don't admit it after all.
A few key points you seem to have missed:
-
Your property taxes would have gone up if the transit tax was repealed. There are a few different scenarios how that would work: a) They quit building the light rail line and never begin operation. CATS then has to repay the federal government ALL of the money it received for construction. b) They run the light rail as planned. Now there is no dedicated funding source to pay for it, so of course they are going to raise property taxes. Property owners take a larger hit in property taxes than they would have paid in extra sales tax.
-
The environment is affected. Congestion is going to get worse in this city. The light rail simply helps it get less worse. It may take a few cars off the road now, but the biggest contribution is that it will help keep cars off the road in the future.
-
Bus service would have been cut in half. The majority of the transit tax pays for expanded bus service, including the Village Rider system, express buses, and new and expanded routes. Without that money and with no increase in property taxes, many of the new lines would be cut and other lines would see decreased service.
By the way, when I was approached by someone collecting signatures for the petition, they asked if I would sign a petition to eliminate the sales tax, not if I would sign a petition to eliminate the half cent sales tax for transit. How many people do you think signed it without reading it? I bet a majority of them, considering that something like 10,000 LESS people voted to repeal the tax than signed the petition in the first place.
I am happy that it is getting built because I like it when people plan ahead. Sure, Charlotte doesn’t need it right now. But it will be needed 10-15 years from now. Then, it will be in place and people will be used to having it around. To the people who ask why we don’t wait until it is needed, I point to I-485 in Pineville. Think a little forethought could have saved a big headache there? Building it now is expensive, sure, but building it 10 years from now would be even more expensive.
2. The environment is affected. Congestion is going to get worse in this city. The light rail simply helps it get less worse. It may take a few cars off the road now, but the biggest contribution is that it will help keep cars off the road in the future.
to me that is so intellectually dishonest. It will not effect confestion now or in the future on the south side. Had the rail been built along I77 or I85, I agree it would help (ie ATL or DC). But a train track going up South Blvd does so little to traffic flow. As I have said above, I am not anti light rail, I just hate some of the lazy straw man arguments such as congestion improvement. Most of the people who are going to ride the rail were on a bus already. I think the rail could AD TO CONGESTION. If they build some cool restaurants and shopping, I know my wife and I will be driving to South Blvd to eat/shop there. :lmao:
regardless of the “congestion” spin, it was built to funnel dollars into certain places, such as City of Charlotte property tax income, and the likes of Harvey Gantt-types who will profit off all the engineering and architecture required.
[quote=metro;271311]to me that is so intellectually dishonest. It will not effect confestion now or in the future on the south side. Had the rail been built along I77 or I85, I agree it would help (ie ATL or DC). But a train track going up South Blvd does so little to traffic flow. As I have said above, I am not anti light rail, I just hate some of the lazy straw man arguments such as congestion improvement. Most of the people who are going to ride the rail were on a bus already. I think the rail could AD TO CONGESTION. If they build some cool restaurants and shopping, I know my wife and I will be driving to South Blvd to eat/shop there. :lmao:quote]
If done correctly it will cut back on congestion. High density developement brings in the types of people who use their cars as an afterthought, b/c they use the train, buses, or god forbid a bicycle. No one expects you to think car usage will decrease when you drive from Fort Mill everyday, and obviously the intial south line will have trouble, but to think it can’t cut back on vehicular transportation is ridiculous, since all other precedents of light rail/metro do this exactly. Like I said in an earlier post, your hypothesis could be correct, but if your “Gantt type” people (like me) come in, it will become developed. Another thing about congestion… Rworkman and I are not saying you will see less cars but you will in proportion to the population in the area, obviously the amount of cars will not decrease but in direct correlation with the surrounding population it will have, [U]if everything is developed carefully[/U].
Just got back from WWE RAW - GREAT show and the Nature Boy was awesome! Entertainment aside though we drove from Belmont to the Tyvola Station and hopped the train. It was SUPER easy. The time I spent driving to Tyvola I could have driven uptwon, but by taking the train I did not have to pay to park and I was able to avoid all the traffic around the arena. I was VERY disappointed though that upon arriving one of the ticketing centers was out of order and then when we were getting back on after the show they were down. This system is how old? We are already having problems with it? That seems like a really bad sign to me. Either way though - rail worked, made the evening MUCH more enjoyable. Ken you can sit on the sideline and pout about the city having mass transit or you can get on board with the fact that this city has grown and will continue to grow and things like light rail are part of that growth. You mentioned in some post that the people that want this should move away - maybe if you are so opposed to it you should move away? Just an option if modern life seems so bad for ya.
Just got back from WWE RAW - GREAT show and the Nature Boy was awesome! Entertainment aside though we drove from Belmont to the Tyvola Station and hopped the train. It was SUPER easy. The time I spent driving to Tyvola I could have driven uptwon, but by taking the train I did not have to pay to park and I was able to avoid all the traffic around the arena. I was VERY disappointed though that upon arriving one of the ticketing centers was out of order and then when we were getting back on after the show they were down. This system is how old? We are already having problems with it? That seems like a really bad sign to me. Either way though - rail worked, made the evening MUCH more enjoyable. Ken you can sit on the sideline and pout about the city having mass transit or you can get on board with the fact that this city has grown and will continue to grow and things like light rail are part of that growth. You mentioned in some post that the people that want this should move away - maybe if you are so opposed to it you should move away? Just an option if modern life seems so bad for ya.
basically you could have found a park and ride and taken a bus that would have gotten you there faster, for the same price, for the last couple of years. I love how a ton of people, outside of this board included, is like “oh we got to the panther game for only $1.30, that is way cheaper than parking!”. Transit in this town didn’t start yesterday. You basically now have something that is “good enough for you” in a train (not you in general, but people who are willing to ride a brand new train, but not a bus that John Rocker would describe). You are taking the train more as a novelty than the fact it gets you to point A to point B, in an efficient and effective way.
Even a Chevy Aveo comes with a new car smell.
[QUOTE=ninerID;271519]basically you could have found a park and ride and taken a bus that would have gotten you there faster, for the same price, for the last couple of years. I love how a ton of people, outside of this board included, is like “oh we got to the panther game for only $1.30, that is way cheaper than parking!”. Transit in this town didn’t start yesterday. You basically now have something that is “good enough for you” in a train (not you in general, but people who are willing to ride a brand new train, but not a bus that John Rocker would describe). You are taking the train more as a novelty than the fact it gets you to point A to point B, in an efficient and effective way.
Even a Chevy Aveo comes with a new car smell.[/QUOTE]
You are VERY right. I hate the buses! I have ridden it a few times and never again. The rail though was MUCH nicer. So you are right that the train is good enough for me. Not sure I would use it a lot since I am in Gaston County, but it is a nice option to have.
[QUOTE=NinerWupAss;271510]I was VERY disappointed though that upon arriving one of the ticketing centers was out of order and then when we were getting back on after the show they were down. This system is how old? We are already having problems with it? That seems like a really bad sign to me.[/QUOTE]
After spending the last 10 years of my life working in construction, I can assure you that the most “speed bumps” are in the first weeks of operation. Nothing to be too concerned about there yet. [B]Note: the ticketing machines do not accept credit card yet.[/B]
After spending the last 10 years of my life working in construction, I can assure you that the most "speed bumps" are in the first weeks of operation. Nothing to be too concerned about there yet. [B]Note: the ticketing machines do not accept credit card yet.[/B]
CASH IS DEAD, LONG LIVE PLASTIC!!!
If done correctly it will cut back on congestion. High density developement brings in the types of people who use their cars as an afterthought, b/c they use the train, buses, or god forbid a bicycle. No one expects you to think car usage will decrease when you drive from Fort Mill everyday, and obviously the intial south line will have trouble, but to think it can't cut back on vehicular transportation is ridiculous, since all other precedents of light rail/metro do this exactly. Like I said in an earlier post, your hypothesis could be correct, but if your "Gantt type" people (like me) come in, it will become developed. Another thing about congestion... Rworkman and I are not saying you will see less cars but you will in proportion to the population in the area, obviously the amount of cars will not decrease but in direct correlation with the surrounding population it will have, [U]if everything is developed carefully[/U].
right now X amount of cars tie up the road system on South Blvd and 77. I suspect the amount of cool restaurants and shops at South End will increase 10 fold now. Then what? More cars. I agree the euro type person who refuses to own a car will live along the rail and housing for them will grow, but in the end the rail is not taking any cars off the South Blvd, or I77. It is only going to draw more traffic to the retail explosion in the corridor.
proof of my theory that this was done purely as a money grab: why did they not build the rail north to south along Tryon? (I guess because the existing RR)? There are hundreds neighborhoods and tens of thousands of population (people could walk to the light rail train) all along Tryon from the University- all the way past Lake Wylie. If they truly cared about getting people out of cars and on the train, it should of been done along S Tryon or 77. Tryon has dozens and dozens of apartments especially down at 485 and Tryon by the Wal Mart.
one last point then I’ll shut up…ever thought about developers who buy this land? I promise you there are mega developers who pushed this thru with advertising dollars to the campaign, that bought parcels along the future light rail, hedging their bets 10 years ago that this was going to happen. The instant the vote came thru a couple weeks ago, their land along the future north corridor tripled in value. To me there some conflict of interest stories need to surface, of who bought property, when, and what did they contribute to the campaign.
I took the train to work today, it shaved 15 minutes off my drive.
[QUOTE=CharSFNiners;271325]
If done correctly it will cut back on congestion. High density developement brings in the types of people who use their cars as an afterthought, b/c they use the train, buses, or god forbid a bicycle. No one expects you to think car usage will decrease when you drive from Fort Mill everyday, and obviously the intial south line will have trouble, but to think it can’t cut back on vehicular transportation is ridiculous, since all other precedents of light rail/metro do this exactly. Like I said in an earlier post, your hypothesis could be correct, but if your “Gantt type” people (like me) come in, it will become developed. Another thing about congestion… Rworkman and I are not saying you will see less cars but you will in proportion to the population in the area, obviously the amount of cars will not decrease but in direct correlation with the surrounding population it will have, [U]if everything is developed carefully[/U].[/QUOTE]
Actually it won’t do much at all for congestion. If the maximum rate of people ride the line each day then you still are barely putting a dent in the problem. Roads are going to be widened people watch and see. Guess who will be paying for that too? With as many people that are on 85, 77, 485 each day, Light Rail simply can’t haul enough people to help congestion.
BTW, I liken light rail to a new ride in the amusement park right now. It’s new and everyone wants to ride it. But what about a year from now, 5 years from now. The only way they see sustained ridership is because of the the increasing population. I would like to see what kind of dropoff they will have in the next few months (that should be an interesting graph).
[QUOTE=Ninerballin;271563]Actually it won’t do much at all for congestion. If the maximum rate of people ride the line each day then you still are barely putting a dent in the problem. Roads are going to be widened people watch and see. Guess who will be paying for that too? With as many people that are on 85, 77, 485 each day, Light Rail simply can’t haul enough people to help congestion.
BTW, I liken light rail to a new ride in the amusement park right now. It’s new and everyone wants to ride it. But what about a year from now, 5 years from now. The only way they see sustained ridership is because of the the increasing population. I would like to see what kind of dropoff they will have in the next few months (that should be an interesting graph).[/QUOTE]
Increased population is the a main purpose of the light rail. The light rail enables denser development near stops that way if people want to live in that type of development, which is an increasing trend, they have that option.
Transportation is about options.