Look what I found.....(A Football Stadium)

Charlotte 49er Football šŸˆ
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[QUOTE=brentrob55;392365]For those of us who understand what LEED really is we appreciate any attempt to acknowledge interest in certificationā€¦but thats why weā€™re architects. I donā€™t expect people like Metro to give a damn about it or any of the other nay-sayers. Regardless it would be great for the school and open up future opportunities for projects on campus to be LEED certified.

Everybody should want the university to really consider the effects the stadium will have on the surrounding environment. Not too mention most of the points do come from practices that are proven to be better use, care, and lifecycle of land and materials. The fact alone that it would bring interest to our stadium from an environmental standpoint should be enough cause for us to investigate it. From looking at the fan base we have, I think will need those ā€œtree huggersā€ to become interested and perhaps even support the cause.

Iā€™d be suprised if the people against LEED could name more than 1 reason it is badā€¦besides Money. It is the only reasonā€¦and for people who look further into can see that it really isnt that much for the advantages it produces.

I believe if we go after the certification we can get public money or at least some private donors that wouldnt be interested otherwise. I too (knowing how the university acts, and working on a few campus projects) donā€™t see it actually happening, but any step towards protecting/preserving the environment on our campus is a good thing.[/QUOTE]

Some people just donā€™t care about the environment.

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A few links that show stadium and university work that is LEED certified or at least sustainable. If you google it you can see that a lot of major universities have taken initiative already. The exposure they get is nationwide and is great for any new programā€¦not to mention LEED IS A GREAT THING! The first article are for the people who dont know about LEED and how one university saw the benefits, and the next two show stadiums that used it. By the way look at the money numbers from the Nationals stadiumā€¦not that far off of costs if it wasnt LEED certified.

[URL]http://www.statecollegespikes.com/medlar/leed/[/URL]

[URL]http://www.jetsongreen.com/2008/03/first-leed-cert.html[/URL]

[URL]http://sheaanything.blogspot.com/2007/09/penn-state-wins-race-for-first-leed.html[/URL]

[URL]http://oregonstate.edu/sustainability/greenbuilding/completed.html[/URL]

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Some people just don't care about the environment.

well they shouldā€¦you dont have to be a tree hugger to care eitherā€¦Iā€™m notā€¦but this is going to become the norm by about 2020ā€¦ever heard of the 2020 initiative? For those who donā€™t care about the environment I hope when gas goes back up to 4-5 bucks a gallon as a secondary fuel that we dont hear the bitching then.

Unfortunately talking about the environment has taken on resemblance of talking about religionā€¦Iā€™m right and your wrong type attitudesā€¦or whereā€™s the proofā€¦when the proofs right in front of you. Nobody will ever win, but I am glad to see we can actually argue something that is relevant.

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for instance, walmart

has little if anything to do with LEED

First off this is wrong, and second, also has little if anything to do with LEED.

whether skylights help or not, they count for points, which is my argument. automatic sensors in the bathrooms, low flow toilets, reuse of water for the cooling machines as irrigation, bamboo in flooring areas, bike racks, etc.

okay Iā€™ll clarify, outside of taxpayer financed operations where the government dictates how your money is spent, leed is best for office buildings.

Clear cutting gives you zilch in LEED points, itā€™s not wrong. If you build something on a plot of land, there is no reason to clear cut the entire thing, if you do not understand this I donā€™t know what to say.

As well, minimizing the amount of paving since it creates a heat island effect can garner you LEED points.

Natural light through studies is healthier for everyone, it has been linked with overall mood, study habits, etc. Your automatic toilets, reuse of water for cooling etc. puts less stress on usage in an area and maximizes the usage of natural resources (not a bad thing at all unless you work for the water company I guess). Bamboo grows quickly easily replenishing what has been used for products, unlike pine which takes years to mature, this makes it an environmentally friendly material. The bike rack one is stupid to earn points for, I agree, I know they say it encourages riders, but if you were to put some out front of the Wal-Mart at UC I doubt you see any usage, it doesnā€™t exactly coorelate.

LEED has been implemented in housing (multi-family and single family), parking decks, private universities (not govt. backed), and other projects. Iā€™m sorry, but the govt. does a large amount of building or funding of building that occurs in this country.

What is it you do again? I thought I remember you being an engineer, just curious. If you donā€™t care for being responsible w/the environment and its resources, then thatā€™s fine, youā€™re entitled to your opinion, but LEED is far from a sham.

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not to change the subject, but found this interesting article in regards to the football stadium.

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60747

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LEED has been implemented in housing (multi-family and single family), parking decks, private universities (not govt. backed), and other projects. I'm sorry, but the govt. does a large amount of building or funding of building that occurs in this country.

Good post.

I would argue that education is really one of the best uses for LEED. Anything that is public funded (i.e. tax payer money) should be required to pursue LEED principals. Even with something like athletic facilities (usually always private money) you want the final result to last and the maintenance/energy cost to be low over time. Thats what LEED does.

For you and I, how awesome would it be to work on a UNC Charlotte LEED certified football stadiumā€¦I would work on that design team for free. Interesting principal there come to think of itā€¦do we have any architecture alumni working in athletic facility design???

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[QUOTE=bigb62084;392409]not to change the subject, but found this interesting article in regards to the football stadium.

http://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/article/60747[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]HOK Sport took a look at modifying the 4,000-seat Belk Track and Field Facility on campus to accommodate football, but the firmā€™s $59 million to $84 million estimate was too expensive, Gilbert said. Officials are now turning their attention to alternative sites on school grounds.

ā€œThatā€™s part of the reason we are where we are,ā€ Gilbert said. [B]ā€œIt was too much for us to do. What they designed was a Cadillac, and we need a Ford Escort.ā€ HOK officials declined to comment.[/B][/QUOTE]

Very true.

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As for light, ventilation, building materialsā€¦etc, we have guidelines for that called the Building Code, which has evolved over more than 100 years, not invented over a few years by some close-door radicals. The building code are MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS (cap lock faags). There is no need to mandate what type of building people use outside of the building code, which does allow for variances to be submitted if you want to build the stadium out of hay-bails covered with dung.

Most of the people defending LEED are environmental crazies and/or have been to some seminar or took a certification that they hope will put money in their pocket at the expense of someone else. The ultimate goal of LEED HEADS is the make it manadatory for builders, hence the points, which are worthless right now (1 point =60 points = $0). If you take out the COOKBOOK building code and replace it with LEED guidelines, you have created lots of specification and material costs that were not there before.

Unless it is forced on the private sector, the vast majority of LEED buildings have and will continue to be linked to public funds, which have appeared to others as bottomless until recently.

I am not against some of the LEED concepts, although specifying a $100 LED light bulb when a disposable $1 will do just as good is just crazy. However, if you want your stadium seats to shrink or to not get built, then allow these radicals to shape and manipulate it when there are no laws that require it. If we had $50 mil, it would be one thing, but we donā€™t.

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you can build something that is green, without it needing to be "LEED Certified". The whole Leed Certified thing is kind of a scam. You end up doing things for "points" rather than the "benefits".

Put it this way, your average Wal-Mart Supercenter that was built in the last 5 years is probably Leed Certified on a high level, but Wal-Mart has no involvement with LEED as it would cost money to simply get the certification.

ā€œgreen buildingā€ is a good thing in the long run, but has no place for football stadiums. The maximum points that you get for ā€œsite workā€ is 4. To become lead certified I think you have to have something like 50 points (changing this year). I donā€™t know how an open air 12k seat stadium racks up enough points to become leed certified without wasting money.

Leed is mainly for office parks. You lease space to clients who want to be in something green and are willing to pay the extra money for it, it also helps with resale of the buildings. You are not going to make extra on ticket sales because the stadium is ā€œGreenā€.

agreed

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[QUOTE=MeanJoeGreen;392487]As for light, ventilation, building materialsā€¦etc, we have guidelines for that called the Building Code, which has evolved over more than 100 years, not invented over a few years by some close-door radicals. The building code are MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS (cap lock faags). There is no need to mandate what type of building people use outside of the building code, which does allow for variances to be submitted if you want to build the stadium out of hay-bails covered with dung.

Most of the people defending LEED are environmental crazies and/or have been to some seminar or took a certification that they hope will put money in their pocket at the expense of someone else. The ultimate goal of LEED HEADS is the make it manadatory for builders, hence the points, which are worthless right now (1 point =60 points = $0). If you take out the COOKBOOK building code and replace it with LEED guidelines, you have created lots of specification and material costs that were not there before.

Unless it is forced on the private sector, the vast majority of LEED buildings have and will continue to be linked to public funds, which have appeared to others as bottomless until recently.

I am not against some of the LEED concepts, although specifying a $100 LED light bulb when a disposable $1 will do just as good is just crazy. However, if you want your stadium seats to shrink or to not get built, then allow these radicals to shape and manipulate it when there are no laws that require it. If we had $50 mil, it would be one thing, but we donā€™t.[/QUOTE]

For one, most of these people defending LEED are either graduates of, students of, or are closely related to, the architecture program here: they know what theyā€™re talking about.

Its not about being a ā€˜closed door radicalā€™. Itā€™s about doing it right and building a sustainable facility.

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What is it you do again? I thought I remember you being an engineer, just curious. If you don't care for being responsible w/the environment and its resources, then that's fine, you're entitled to your opinion, but LEED is far from a sham.
site development civil engineer.

I am all for sustainability and green design. Most of the things i do are stormwater related/water quality management.

I just think the LEED design is a bit of a sham as in my first post, you do things for points rather than the benefits. I guess you have to do something to promote green building, but i think paying a fee to be LEED is a bit ridiculous.

LEED has come a long way in the last couple of years though, an increased amount of vendors has significantly reduced the price.

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[QUOTE=ninerID;392496]site development civil engineer.

I am all for sustainability and green design. Most of the things i do are stormwater related/water quality management.

I just think the LEED design is a bit of a sham as in my first post, you do things for points rather than the benefits. I guess you have to do something to promote green building, but i think paying a fee to be LEED is a bit ridiculous.

LEED has come a long way in the last couple of years though, an increased amount of vendors has significantly reduced the price.[/QUOTE]

On that note, I find common ground.

As long as we build sustainably, I donā€™t really care. The thing is, however, LEED is really the only way to ensure that we build a sustainable structure. If we decide to not pursue LEED certification, then we have no benchmark to achieve and human nature brings us to taking shortcuts in order to save moneyā€¦ bringing us back to unsustainable square one.

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What does sustainablity for structures mean exactly?

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Because weā€™re only building a 15,000 seat stadium the environmental impact at this stage would be equal to one on the buildings at CRI. The fields will be the major point of emphasis at this stage. Now when we move upward of 30,000 seats then the environmental impact will be more of a concern for the structure itself.

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Good article from an enviro website if you have the hour to read it. My only exception is donā€™t fix the LEED program, trash it.

http://www.grist.org/comments/soapbox/2005/10/26/leed/index1.html

ā€œAn avalanche of reports insist that green building ā€“ and LEED certification in particular ā€“ doesnā€™t cost more than conventional building. These reports are wrong. The second you start a green building project, it costs more than conventional construction.ā€

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[QUOTE=MeanJoeGreen;392560]What does sustainablity for structures mean exactly?[/QUOTE]

I find it funny that you would ask a question like that after a going on two anti-LEED rants.

I work as an engineer and I am LEED accredited. For the most part I agree with CharSFNiners and brentrob. I wouldnā€™t be at all surprised for the LEED certification get value engineered out. Whether they go for LEED certification or not, it would still be smart to take a green design approach because a lot of those things really will save money in the long run.

While I agree with most of the principles behind green building, I can see understand the complaints about paying for the actual LEED certification. Paying the extra money for more energy efficient mechanical systems, water saving devices, etc. is one thing, but paying more to simply have your building tested so you can have the LEED plaque to put on the wall is something else. I guess it more of a PR move than anything else.

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Will someone answer the question? What does it mean really?

What is the long run? Who will be accountable if it doesnā€™t save money?

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ADS is a firm that builds cookie cutter buildings and half s#it! If they are our archiect then we are f@cked.

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[QUOTE=lake49er;392658]ADS is a firm that builds cookie cutter buildings and half s#it! If they are our archiect then we are f@cked.[/QUOTE]

Niners look it upā€¦

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ADS. Most of their clients listed are schools or other government funded projects, so I guess they are on board with LEED. Its even more sad to me if true because they have zero grads from Charlotte and are located in Asheville.