I feel like sharing with you people.
Three years ago I lived in HUD housing that was majority Lakota, and when my (piece of shit) pick-up truck got broken-into, my lo-fi system busted, and I wound-up having to listen to AIR, American Indian Radio, on hi volume indefinitely. Mornings were difficult.
It was a beautiful place though, the Black Hills.
I only got neighborly with a few people, one of whom was a Seminole… I never made it to a pow wow… I was an outsider.
This one guy I met was really old. He used to beat-up cops on the reservation. He was a boxer. He would brag about it kind of. He made it sound like a hobby or something.
my wife wrote:
John Chaffee
The stages of critical thinking:
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garden of Eden
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anything goes
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critical thinking
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black & white thinking, authorities rule. If authorities disagree then my authority knows more than your authority.
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anything goes
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Critical thinking requires a certain level of emotional maturity and intellectual advantage.
If you are able to accept the fact that knowledge changes (e.g. the sun doesn’t revolve around the earth) then you are mature enough to know that knowledge will change depending upon the information you are given. Information changes constantly. If you are able to change you ideas, then you are able to change your understanding. That is how the world works.
I know my opinion is in the minority, but I actually like this decision. I know a little forced sensitivity won’t solve anything, but some of these nicknames are similar to minstral characters. You don’t see teams called the Berlin Juden or the Selma Sambos.
Ken…the club the CR’s started was rude an offensive…and to try and compare it to anything is a dangerous endevor. I’ve got a sense of humor…things just have to be funny for me to laugh.
However…it is very refreshing to see that there are others that agree with me…and niner fans at that 
I care about Americans. I don’t differentiate between white, black, or whatever color.
I do mind liberal PC crap. And that’s what the Indian mascot situation is. Do you hear white people claim that the Minnesota Vikings or UMass Minutemen mascots are insulting to whites. No, we don’t care because we have a live. And the PC crowd doesn’t. Race has nothing to do with it.
That was a highly thought out answer…
How many vikings have you met today??? And if you have met any, do they have any problem with the way they have been treated throughout history?
Let me tell you something…I grandmother and all of her kin were Hopi. Straight off the reservation. She…and everyone she knew…had a TREMENDOUS problem with the treatment and thoughts of native americans. She was highly insulted by any reference to HER culture…that for so long had been abused and mistreated…only now to be reduced to some STUPID SPORTS MASCOT…on the same level as the phoenix gorilla.
Look…you don’t like this debate because you DON"T GET IT!!! Youve got no do in the fight. For you to pass it off as some “liberal bs” not only shows of your naivety, but also your intellegence. It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool…than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.
The minutmen mascot? :huh: You’ve got to be kidding me.
Cas, I can certainly understand your point of view and of your Hopi ancestors. I think some mascots truly do attempt to do the tribes justice. I found it very interesting that Chief Osceola at FSU wears clothing that the Seminole nation verified as authentic and that to be Chief Osceola the student must take a class in the history of the Seminoles. When done right it can achieve many things. I would venture to say that FSU has done much more to further the goals of the Seminole Nation than it has done to hurt it. With that said some mascots and names are nothing more than token symbols. These symbols can hurt and deceive.
Now I do also understand Ken’s point of view that many names can be offensive to different people. I do not find vikings offensive, but the vikings as a group represented some pretty bad things. We see right now more and more groups calling for the term rebels and the confederate flag to be banned as symbols of hate… but yet the union soldiers and the US flag are just as guilty of many of the same ideals that flew under the rebel flags, so do we need to ban patriots? We already talked about the Irish… if an Irish American were to take offense at the ND mascot, how would you respond? Or maybe the huricanes in raleigh? After all the destruction and death in NO how could you have a sports team of a similar name? At what point do we draw the line and say this is ok and this is not?? even our 49er could be hurtful to somebody…
[b]A result of the Gold Rush was then the displacement and outright removal of native peoples from the land, significant death and trauma as a result of violence from the emigrant population, irreparable damage to the environment, limited access to resources, and changes in the cultures of native people that would continue on a road of attrition to this very day. [/b]
The sad fact of the matter is that sports team take names that bring violent and/or aggressive images. No one wants to be the prancing unicorns. Aslong as violent names are chosen somebody somewhere will most likely be offended and feel trampled on. The PC police want to make sure no one is ever offended or hurt and that will just never happen. So where do we draw the line?
Dude I respect your G-ma’s opinion & her heritage.
I hope she taught you Hopi history, customs, & language.
But the point is that you don’t get it. For 30 years of my life, I’ve been hearing white is bad about this & that, & I’m tired of it.
I wasn’t born when Native Americans had their land stolen or got massacred.
I wasn’t born during slavery or segration.
Why should I have to suffer with PC BS on stuff I personally had nothing to do with.
The reason I referenced the Viking is because they play in Minnesota, & most in Minnesota are Scandivadians, the descendents of the Vikings, & they don’t get mad & say this makes their history look bad.
The UMass Minutemen mascot is white. Most in the Rev. War were white, but the US also had black & Native Americans on our side, & no one says, we’re being excluded.
My point is their has to be consistency. All have to object or else we have to ignore the ones who object. It’s an all or nothing proposition.
Not all whites like to get blamed for the fate of the world, so none of us should have to listen to it. The ones who did are dead or old as dirt (& no one likes anyway.)
Why don’t you use your righteous anger, & do something constructive, like prosecute racists murderers in Mississippi that aren’t dead yet. The mascot thing hurts no one.
[i]Originally posted by WBNiner[/i]@Oct 3 2005, 05:22 PM [b] I found it very interesting that Chief Osceola at FSU wears clothing that the Seminole nation verified as authentic and that to be Chief Osceola the student must take a class in the history of the Seminoles. When done right it can achieve many things. I would venture to say that FSU has done much more to further the goals of the Seminole Nation than it has done to hurt it. [/b]Just making sure that you saw that the NCAA agreed with you on that point that the Seminoles is exempt from the ban.
Yeah Lutz I knew that… still think it is insane that the NCAA tried to do this even though it was common knowledge… atleast I thought it was commonm about the relationship between the tribe and the school.
That’s interesting NinerOne! The problem is that regardless of the original intent the PC police will use its current usage and context as a reason to deem it unacceptable rather than educating people on its origin. Remember back a few years when a teacher used the word “niggardly”, she used it correctly and with no malice, but yet she was chastised and vilified. The PC police are only concerned with how people feel… not what is real.
[b]The PC police are only concerned with how people feel.. not what is real.[/b]
Good point/
How do you, WBNiner, know what’s real?
I find it practical and reasonable to assume “reality” means consensus.
I think the reality question underlies disagreement on this thread.
What NinerOne posts is not at all esoteric.
It’s not unreasonable to assume someone looked at their skin, looked at another’s skin, and gasp realized the coloration is different.
In fact, just a few minutes ago I noticed someone with black skin!
Now I can use the term black to describe the person, and mean nothing of harm by it.
But there’s a variation of that term (add a g to a country in Africa) that is intended to be derrogatory, and is also perceived to be derrogatory.
Just like redskin. Often times things start out innocent enough but people who think they are superior for one reason or another as a source of derision.
Kind of like the word “woman.” If you knew every word in the english language but “woman” and heard stonecoldken using it, you’d think very quickly it’s a derrogatory term.
What country are you talking about?
Eggypt
South Afgrica
Libyag
But on a serious note, the woman example is a bit extreme.
And black people didn’t invent the N word. So that’s a different arguement than the R word for Native Americans.
[i]Originally posted by stonecoldken[/i]@Oct 5 2005, 12:04 PM [b]What country are you talking about? Eggypt South Afgrica Libyag[/b]
D) None of the above.
Here’s the correct answer:
On a related note…there was a great piece on Frontline last night on the African American experience regarding the OJ trial. How their history has colored their reality…very similiar to what anipal is talking about. Reality…as a generalization…is extremely relative and colored by experience.
I think it re-airs later on in the week. I highly recommend watching it…just come to it with an open mind.
[QUOTE]How do you, WBNiner, know what’s real? [QUOTE]
I do not claim to know what is real. I simply know that here in this day and time very few people take the time to investigate matters. They simply listen to a few talking heads (with an agenda) and without educating themselves assume the position of the talking heads. The PC police would have us ban certain terms that people or groups deem or perceive offensive, but when in reality some are far from it. They have simply been perverted by a group of people and used incorrectly. A simple review of history would clear up matters.
I think what really gets me going is that so many different groups are more worried about some language or images than they are about the TRUE issues their people are facing. My GF recently returned from a service project on a BlackFoot Reservation. She said every major Native American stereo type was there (unemployment, alcoholism, smoking). The Native Americans need to tackle this. We have already stated the percentage of young blacks in prison. If leaders of these groups want to TRULY make a difference they need to aim their energy and power and making things better. Is the crack cocaine punishment harsher than the powder cocaine… sure it is… but here is an idea… DONT USE CRACK! Don’t do it then who cares about the punishment. All I am saying is this world has so many more issues facing it and as a society all races and genders have work to do… I think WE need to work on some of the things that truly matter, then worry about the names.
I am not saying they need to do this on their own. I have spent a large part of my life doing service work and helping those less fortunate than I and I will continue to do so, but it takes ALL of us doing the dirty work and finally dropping this notion of groups. It is time that people stop looking at me as a white male… just look at me as Rob a human being.
Rob a human? Lol.
And yes, I knew it was Niger.
I agree with Rob. Whites disown the Klan because it’s a bad representation.
If you do things that make your race bad, others in your race should follow our lead & treat you like an Uncle Tom. If you drink, & you’re a Native American, you’re re-inforcing a stereotype, & other Native Americans should avoid you. If you don’t speak English, you’re making English speaking Hispanics look bad, & other Hispanics should avoid you. If you’re poor or a minority & do a crime, then you’re re-inforcing a stereotype & other poor people & minorities should avoid you. Whites can’t change your minority group, only the leaders & members of a particular ethnic group can change it. While I disagree with stereotypes & racism, someone in each group has to step up.
P.S. the OJ innocent jury was revenge against all white people & a racist decision. What’s ironic is Nicole liked minorities, & her two kids were 1/2 black, so why punish her for the sins of slavery & segragation? Where’s the sense in that? No person can honestly believe OJ was innocent.
This thread is heading in a scary direction.