Without those 4 guys, our frontcourt next year is: Bones, Booker & Dewhurst with NO subs. Do you seriously wanna see that?
Are any of us enjoying what we're seeing now and even back to last season? Sure, it would could possibly take a recruiting hit with a resignation/termination but are we not already in terrible shape as the circumstances stand?
Would you rather continue down this path weāre on and maintain a few recruits or would you rather start from scratch and build back up? I guess it just comes down to what youāre able to stomach more. Personally, Iād much rather start over and rebuild from the ground up. If your house is flooded, you donāt just shop-vac out the water. You have to replace the entire flooring. Iām ready to replace it all and work our way back to the top. I cannot tolerate another season like this one. Itās absolutely killing my interest, passion and loyalty to this program. I am to the point where I just have absolutely no interest at all. I didnāt watch the game last night, wonāt listen to the one tonight and Iām only going to Wofford so that some Christmas gifts can be exchanged. I just flat out donāt give a crap about whatās going on, on the court right now and I wonāt until some significant changes are made. You can say Iām not being a true fan all you want but Iāve been supporting this program longer than some of you have been driving a vehicle and I refuse to tolerate this BS.
If we lose recruits, then so be it. Weāll gain more down the road when some see that weāre actually making an effort to progress.
You can have both JCL. It depends on timing. We could quietly look for a successor (at more than one job) and then hand the reins off deftly when the switch is made with zero player loss.
And thatās important to me, because I disagree with the notion of starting over from scratch. Iāve seen too many coaches come in and get a lot more out of the same players than their predecessor did, including Bobby (at one time).
Next yearās team is gonna be really, really young, its going to be stocked with lots of 4 year players, and it will have a couple of vets in the backcourt to show the way. I canāt imagine a better situation for āstarting overā.
Iād like to see a philosophical shift towards better defense, more motion, and balanced scoring, with all these young kids weāve brought in. The pieces are there for a solid team.
I'd like to see a philosophical shift towards better defense, more motion, and balanced scoring, with all these young kids we've brought in. The pieces are there for a solid team.
I'd love to see that as well but it's not going to happen with our current coaching staff. We are going to continue to squander away good talent and risk not having these kids develop into very good basketball players. I feel bad for these guys who come in here and have to struggle through this mess we're in. There has to be a change made by the end of this season. If not, we're going to risk losing more than recruits. We're going to lose season ticket holders and even more money from alumni contributions, along with making corporate sponsors highly disgruntled. Some already are and that trend will continue as long as we are willing to accept the current situation.
I donāt want to start over from scratch. My point was just that at this point, Iām willing to take that chance if the only other alternative is keep things exactly as they are for another season. Iāll just opt for the lesser of two evils there. But I hope we can find a happy median. And for me, thatās a new coaching staff while maintaining commitments from our current recruits.
The 13 win season we had a good nucleous, with withers and basden, and then we added Plavich and Iti, we were able to turn it around fast. But I donāt think that is the case right now, it could take 2 years to build back.
The 13 win team included Demon, Basden, Withers and Butter.
I hate to say this, but I would trade all of the recruits we have lined up next year for a new coach. I donāt think a new coach would necessarily mean losing them all thoughā¦ we may lose one or two, but I think some of them would stay. And if we are playing like this now, who is Lutz going to be able to recruit a couple of years down the road? Even if Lutz brings in talented players the next few years, do you really expect him to do anything with it? We may suck for a year or two until the new coach gets the personnel he wants, but could we really be any worse than we are now? At least we would have some hope of improving under a new coachā¦ I donāt have that hope right now under Lutz.
I just canāt see us being as successful as I want us to be with Lutzā unstructured, jack up as many 3s as possible style of offense. There is no backup plan and there is no defense. Sure, we have won a few games like that in the past when a shooter gets hotā¦ but that isnāt how you build a successful program that will advance in March. Our guys look completely lost on both ends of the floor. After getting blown out by Davidson, we had nine days to prepare for Houstonā¦ yet we play like a group of guys at the YMCA that just met each other. How many points did we score off of set plays last night? I think Lutz needs to goā¦ the sooner the better. We are starting to lose even the diehard fans.
App St just won their damn tournament beating UVA, Central Florida and Vanderbilt. Donte Minter who originally chose UVA over us scored 27. We used to overachieve in my opinion making the tournament 5 out of 7 years. Now weāre simply terrible. Same coach, similar talent ā> different result. Something has to change.
The other thing that gets me is that the past two years Lutz has said he thinks weāll be good. Last year - weāll be different by having an inside-outside game but be very good. This year - weāll surprise people he said. He also made a statement about accuracy of his predictions in years past. So something is WRONG because things have changed.
[QUOTE=amnesiac;206770]The 13 win season we had a good nucleous, with withers and basden, and then we added Plavich and Iti, we were able to turn it around fast. But I donāt think that is the case right now, it could take 2 years to build back.
The 13 win team included Demon, Basden, Withers and Butter.[/QUOTE]
I donāt want to lose recruits. But if hurting us in the short term helps in the long, Iām all for it.
If there was a way to keep all of them, Iād be all for itā¦Iām just not sure there is.
I dont even think Lutz has confidence in Lutz anymore. I donāt think hed be surprised by being asked to leave. I would rather him do it on his own, but either way, it needs to be done.
Now heās talking about the A-10 being a one-bid league, how we have to improve our 16% three point FG%, how weāre not good enough for the year, blaming negativity by people watching his playersā¦
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Survivor, I didnāt listen to the post game - could you elaborate on the above quote? What was he saying about the A10 and the negativity? Negativity from what, the players or the fans? And why call the A10 a one bid league? They could definitely get 2-3 teams in (maybe more) this year. I donāt see how the A10 has any relevance to the way we played last night.
yet we play like a group of guys at the YMCA that just met each other. How many points did we score off of set plays last night? I think Lutz needs to goā¦ the sooner the better. We are starting to lose even the diehard fans.
Have you been to some of the local Yās on a Friday afternoon? I can assure you that there are groups of guys playing there that could beat our current team on any given day or at least give us a good game. And they could do it without a coach instructing them.
Survivor, I didn't listen to the post game - could you elaborate on the above quote? What was he saying about the A10 and the negativity? Negativity from what, the players or the fans? And why call the A10 a one bid league? They could definitely get 2-3 teams in (maybe more) this year. I don't see how the A10 has any relevance to the way we played tonight.
I didnāt listen to the post-game show so I have no idea what Bobby said. But Iāve never once truly believed that Bobby was happy with the move to the A-10. I donāt doubt that he realized it was our best move at the time but that doesnāt mean he was happy with it. How could he be? No coach can go from beating up on Huggins, Pitino, Calipari, Crean, etc. in a 4-6 bid conference with home sellouts and solid TV coverage to what weāre facing now. If you were the coach, would you honestly enjoy that transition? It would kill some of my drive as well. And I know the A-10 has been historically good and there is some upside to it. But it does NOT have the appeal to a coach that the old CUSA had. Not by a long shot and I can totally understand how that could affect a coach like Lutz who thrives on playing the best teams, best coaches and in hostile environments.
[QUOTE=jcl49er;206790]I didnāt listen to the post-game show so I have no idea what Bobby said. But Iāve never once truly believed that Bobby was happy with the move to the A-10. I donāt doubt that he realized it was our best move at the time but that doesnāt mean he was happy with it. How could he be? No coach can go from beating up on Huggins, Pitino, Calipari, Crean, etc. in a 4-6 bid conference with home sellouts and solid TV coverage to what weāre facing now. If you were the coach, would you honestly enjoy that transition? It would kill some of my drive as well. And I know the A-10 has been historically good and there is some upside to it. But it does NOT have the appeal to a coach that the old CUSA had. Not by a long shot and I can totally understand how that could affect a coach like Lutz who thrives on playing the best teams, best coaches and in hostile environments.[/QUOTE]
I doubt heās happy about it either. I donāt think anybodyās happy with it. I doubt youāll find one single person who would rather be in the A10 than the old CUSA, but the old CUSA is gone and the A10 is a better fit for us than the new CUSA is. IMO, it should not matter to Bobby what conference we are in - if he wins things will get better. If he loses, he has no right to complain about it. I honestly donāt know if it was the Tennessee job or the team meltdown before the NCAA tourney or the move to the A10 but Bobby just isnāt the coach he used to be. We got real bad real quick and the more we play the seemingly worse we get.
IMO, it should not matter to Bobby what conference we are in
But Iād be willing to bet that it does. You just simply cannot go from what he had to what he has and not be affected by it. Bobby, much like our teams (which fed off Bobby) got up for those big, in-conference matchups against high-profile coaches. I refuse to believe he approaches our conference games the same way he did those. Thereās just not much there to get excited about and I think you see that from the way he coaches now, his post-game comments and the results on the court.
This isnāt really an argument about whether or not weāre better off now than if we were in the current CUSA. My point is just simply that Bobby cannot possibly enjoy the current circumstances as much as the past ones. And that can definitely affect your ability/desire to coach. Doesnāt make it right or give Bobby any sort of hall pass though.
And yes, as you noted, I firmly believe that the UT situation also played a big part in what weāre seeing now. Lutz hasnāt been the same since, IMO.
This isnāt really an argument about whether or not weāre better off now than if we were in the current CUSA. My point is just simply that Bobby cannot possibly enjoy the current circumstances as much as the past ones. And that can definitely affect your ability/desire to coach. Doesnāt make it right or give Bobby any sort of hall pass though.
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I understand, not trying to argue. Again, I donāt blame him - I liked where we were better too, but you can either sulk and us play like this or you can try to make the most of what you have. Right now the guyās digging his own grave because as much as he may dislike the A10 he has absolutely no shot of anybody else ever hiring him now.
[QUOTE=jcl49er;206834]But Iād be willing to bet that it does. You just simply cannot go from what he had to what he has and not be affected by it. Bobby, much like our teams (which fed off Bobby) got up for those big, in-conference matchups against high-profile coaches. I refuse to believe he approaches our conference games the same way he did those. Thereās just not much there to get excited about and I think you see that from the way he coaches now, his post-game comments and the results on the court.
This isnāt really an argument about whether or not weāre better off now than if we were in the current CUSA. My point is just simply that Bobby cannot possibly enjoy the current circumstances as much as the past ones. And that can definitely affect your ability/desire to coach. Doesnāt make it right or give Bobby any sort of hall pass though.
And yes, as you noted, I firmly believe that the UT situation also played a big part in what weāre seeing now. Lutz hasnāt been the same since, IMO.[/QUOTE]
It may frustrate him and probably bothered him for a while BUT he has not lost his desire to succeed. I think we are seeing more patience, not less fire. He probably feels like even more of an underdog on the national scale now. So I donāt buy this as the reason for the decline.
Afterall, like I said earlier, he has made comments the last two years predicting the team would be very good/good and he truly believed it. Very good to Lutz translates to NCAA tournament. They thought this team was bubble caliber without Jones and a NCAA team with him.
Pretty sure Guthridge went to 2 final 4s..... He left the program in bad shape for Matt, but he was very successful while there.
But that is besides the point, your point about getting rid of family is very valid.
Guthridge went to 2 final 4s with a team that couldāve done that without a coach. Those teams shouldnāt have been happy with anything less than a National Championship. None of those players were his. Dean Smith left him with gold, and he turned it into a boiling pot of cow dung. I know this is out of context for this thread, but please, do not give Guthridge credit for those successful seasons. The same thing happened with Larry Coker taking over Miami in football from Butch Davis. Bad coaching ruin teams.
Now back to the thread. I used to love Bobby, but things have changed. If you watch him during the game, heās not the āspark starterā he once was. All of his teams have historically not been āwell coachedā teams, but they would go on runs bc of something that Bobby would do during the game that would get the crowd into it, then the players would feed from it. In my opinion, he doesnāt have that anymore. Whenever heās mad, he doesnāt jump up and down and scream at the refs; he just crosses his arms and puts his hand to his mouth. One of the funniest things I have ever seen is during a game where we shouldve been killing the other team, Bobby got pissed at Calvin Clemons and pulled him to the sidelines and was jumping and screaming at him trying his hardest to get in Calvins face. If any of you do not remember, Calvin was a pretty enormous guy. Then he threw his jacket over the chairs, sent Calvin (head down like a whipped puppy) to the end of the bench, and sent in somebody else. From then on in that game, we kicked the shit out of that team that we shouldāve been doing in the beginning. Iām not saying that Bobby was ever a great coach, but what he lacked in strategy, he made up for in determination, competitiveness, and pure intensity. Now that he does not have that, the team has nothing to feed off of except if they hit a three. So what are we to do? Throw up 35 to 40 threes a game? Why? Because coach allows us to.
Disagree if you want, but that, in my opinion, is it. Talent isnāt the problem. Weāve got a ātalentedā team in the true sense of the word. We just do not have a leader to get us up for the games anymore.
It may frustrate him and probably bothered him for a while BUT he has not lost his desire to succeed. I think we are seeing more patience, not less fire. He probably feels like even more of an underdog on the national scale now. So I don't buy this as the reason for the decline.
I never said he has lost his desire to succeed. Name me a coach who strives to fail. But donāt tell me that Bobby has the same demeanor, fire and passion that he had prior to the UT situation. Anyone that has watched Bobby coach since taking the Charlotte job can clearly see heās not the same person anymore. You see it on the sidelines, you hear it in the post-games and you witness it with game results.
I know itās a hard pill to swallow for all the Lutz lovers but youāll never convince me he didnāt want the UT job and you wonāt convince me that he wasnāt genuinely disappointed he didnāt get it. And because of the timing of that with the start of our programās decline, itās hard to argue that there isnāt a correlation. Toss in some other factors (move to the A-10, loss of key recruits, scheduling, etc.) and you have the perfect recipe for a coach whoās not what he used to be.
[QUOTE=jcl49er;206879]I never said he has lost his desire to succeed. Name me a coach who strives to fail. But donāt tell me that Bobby has the same demeanor, fire and passion that he had prior to the UT situation. Anyone that has watched Bobby coach since taking the Charlotte job can clearly see heās not the same person anymore. You see it on the sidelines, you hear it in the post-games and you witness it with game results.
I know itās a hard pill to swallow for all the Lutz lovers but youāll never convince me he didnāt want the UT job and you wonāt convince me that he wasnāt genuinely disappointed he didnāt get it. And because of the timing of that with the start of our programās decline, itās hard to argue that there isnāt a correlation. Toss in some other factors (move to the A-10, loss of key recruits, scheduling, etc.) and you have the perfect recipe for a coach whoās not what he used to be.[/QUOTE]
BCS school, million dollar multi-year salary, one of the top conferences in America where he would have a shot landing any kid he wanted. Of course he wanted the job.
I stll go back to him thinking we can be really good the last two years and even this year saying we have the potential to be one of the best shooting teams heās had. Obviously he sees something he likes in workouts and practice and itās not carrying over in games.
We used to overachieve in my opinion making the tournament 5 out of 7 years. Now weāre simply terrible. Same coach, similar talent ā> different result. Something has to change.