How quickly you recover costs is really connected to how much you drive. Doesnāt hootie work from home?
Iām at the point where Iām driving prob 50 miles a week tops unless I drive into Charlotte. Iām at like a tank of gas a month right now.
Rare earth metals is a misnomer. They really arenāt all that rare. Rare earth metals are 3x more abundant than copper, twice as abundant as zinc, and 200 times more abundant than gold or platinum.
The difference is they are found in low concentration in their ore relative to other metals where there are limited deposits, but high concentrations within those deposits.
Many rare earths, and conflict metals (cobalt is the most cited) are also used in the refining of gasoline, but people donāt know/donāt give a shit about that because it doesnāt fit their narrative.
I hate the false environmental concerns of people that never cared about the environmental impacts of mining coal, fracking for gas/oil, digging up massive amounts of earth for oil sands, mining for any other metal commonly used in society, or hell, lithium production for electronics.
The reality is pretty much everything required to operate in a civilized society has environmental costs. The people that pretend that EVs have little to no environmental impact are just as stupid and annoying as the people that think theyāre destroying the earth while turning a blind eye to everything else we do that has negative impacts on the earth.
EVs are awesome for pretty much anyone that rarely drives more than 300 miles in a day. I drive more than probably 90% of society and range has been a complete non-issue. I charge overnight and in the rare instances I do have to use a fast charging station, it has been fast and a complete non-issue. Everyone here has spent more time standing at a gas pump this year than I have waiting at a charger for my car to charge. I didnāt get an EV because I thought I was saving the planet. I got it because its quiet, the performance is awesome, itās fun to drive, and I like the tech.
Iām skeptical of their use for commerce and trucking, but for commuting vehicles, I would never go back to a traditional car again.
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Need? No. You can plug into a 110v outlet, but thatās only going to net you about 3 miles of charge per hour. Youād want one though.
With your specific setup, a 240v outlet would probably be a few thousand to have installed plus the cost of the charging system (Tesla you can just plug straight into a 240v outlet, but you canāt do that with every car.
Iām having my house built with two 240v circuits built in, one in the garage, one right outside the garage. Since it will be built from scratch with EVs in mind, the cost to add these is only a couple hundred dollars. Anyone that had a breaker panel in their garage, the cost would also be very low. GM offers to pay the cost (up to $1200 I believe) with the purchase of an EV.
Correct, but this way of ascribing worth to EVs (and hybrids before EVs) has always made me roll my eyes. Nobody asks a luxury car owner to prove the cars value over another cheaper model of car.
I had a douche customer once ask me how many normal Hyundai sedans I could have got for the price of my car. He had a giant Lexus SUV in his garage. I asked him how many ford explorers he could have gotten for the same price and he laughed and changed the subject.
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The best thing about NNās posts is he is speaking from experience now. We need more of this. His opinion is worth more than mine for that reason alone. I still havenāt bought an EV, though my wife and I have decided our next vehicle will definitely be one. We kinda caved and replaced our SUV last time.
I will readily admit there needs to be more fast charging stations. EV adoption is outpacing new charging construction.
Tesla is also really the only one that has it figured out. You simply plug and it works. No screens, no cards, no phone apps. One of the benefits of a fully vertically integrated system I guess.
The third party platforms like EVgo, ChargePoint, and Electrify America all rely on apps, credit cards, or rfid cards. More pieces to break. Also completely reliant on being connected to the internet, so if they lose signal for any reason, the chargers donāt work. Since there are limited charging stations, even one stall being down can be disastrous.
My experience has been that ChargePoint is the most reliable. I have literally never had an issue with their chargers working, but they only have one āfastā charging station in the area and itās not all that fast at 62kw. I use a 240v ChargePoint charger 3-4 times a week at my apartment though.
EVGo has been the next best. They have two stations in Charlotte with 350kw charging capabilities. My car leaks at 235kw (which is only behind Porsche and lucid). The 350kw stations are money for me because the rest are pretty much all 50 or 150. When itās warm outside, those will get me 200+ miles in 15-18 minutes. When itās cold, double it. Fortunately, fast charging stations are generally not necessary anyway.
Electrify America stations are great when theyāre working properly. The only one in Charlotte is pretty big and itās at the university Walmart, so if I go there Iāll go buy some groceries or household items I need. Not uncommon for 2-3 of the 10 stalls to be down though.
Right now my car is plugged in at my apartment. When I wake up itāll have a fresh 250 miles (80% charge) and it will have cost me $4-5. I have about 200 miles of driving to do tomorrowā¦Charlotte to York to statesville to concord to charlotte. Plug in and itās ready to go again the next day.
One thing that is frustrating from a charging perspective though is dumb car owners. I see bolt owners and VW owners go straight for the 350kw chargers even though their cars canāt even charge past the 150kw speed of the other chargers. They see a higher number and think itāll speed things up for them but thatās not how it works. Makes me want to stab holes in tires when I have to charge at a slower speed because some dipshit doesnāt know how their car works.
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EVGo I think is kind of a mess right now. Seeing reports that they are doing a shitty job of maintenance on their charging stations.
I think youāre right about Tesla doing the charging thing the right way. And IMO, that supercharger network is the bigger value to that company than their cars are. Yes, I said it. If they open that network up to other users without changing the way it operates, it would be worth a mint. That might be challenging to do though.
I get the argument. Heard it all the time when I was buying new motorcycles. For the average consumer that is weighing ICE accord vs an EV on a middle class family budget though? that math matters and for EVs to take off thatās the audience that has to jump in.
The funny thing is with more people working from home it makes the EV more useful as you are really removing the range issues since itās just grocery shopping or kids school drop offs but itās making the math to justify the higher investment a harder pill to swallow because it stretches out the ROI.
I really thought our next car would be an EV for the wife. I have possibly the last two cars Iāll ever buy for myself - and if I do buy anything else itās gonna be old used analog limited or no computer straight drive ICEs. The wife is hooked on the new bronco though so looks like EV gonna have to wait for awhile longer for us.
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EVs can be made for lessā¦
Base price of $27k.
That said, I still think we pushed all electric too soon thanks to Elon. We needed a plan to get from gas to electric that had a longer transition with hybrids.
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IMHO, the average 2 car American suburban family could do well with a hybrid family hauler for road trips and more extended driving (eg a Highlander Hybrid or a Kia Sportage / Sorrento Hybrid or similar), and a daily driver EV for short trips / commutes. That would probably cover an absurdly high % of usage cases.
We put a 240v outlet on our house when had the electricians here last and was not too cheap because we needed a new box (needed anyway, several split circuits) and also had to move our meter down to meet new code. The charge for the outlet addition alone was a couple hundred bucks. Have a detached garage behind and looked into putting it there but decided to wait given current cost of wiring to run it out there and wife gets the garage spot anyway.
We are motivated by environmental concerns, but in this part of NY the electric mix is about 1/3 hydro and 1/4 nuclear, so emissions really are pretty drastically reduced after purchase. If you live somewhere like WV, think the calculation could be different (electric so much from coal), though i bet it is still a reduction, and will get better as more and more coal gets retired. Thereās slightly more emissions in EV production too, but they get offset within the first year or so. The minerals question NN discussed above, I agree, and would just add that new sources of lithium will help.
Did a quick calculation of fuel costs and estimated we would save about $650 a year in gas Civic versus electric Leaf driving 150 miles a week at current gas and electricity rates. If you compare to a less efficient car, itās probably more. Iām hoping maintenance savings also help the budget, but have to think a new car wouldnāt be as bad as that 04 civic where something new was falling apart every time we brought it in.
Absolutely is. Coal fired power plants are by far the least efficient of major power sources at turning potential energy into electricity at 40% or less. Modern coal plants also have significant pollution controls to keep fine particulate matter out of the atmosphere. Theyāre both cleaner and more effficient than millions of miniature power plants in automobiles operating at under 30% efficiency.
People that live within a mile if a major highway have much higher incidences of respiratory issues and cancer. Removing smog causing particulate from being localized where high concentrations of people live has health benefits for society as well.
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You know what is super green? Motorcycles 
less resources to build and less resources to move it and less impact on infrastructure!
I look at my footprint this way. I am buying older vehicles already in existence that while they do pollute at a higher rate, I am not contributing to using additional limited resources to build me a new car.
We have a 14 Silverado and a 14 Impala that are both in super shape and only have 100k on each. Iām probably gonna keep them as long I can. The one caveat is my company gives me a healthy car allowance but they stipulate the car needs to be 7 yrs old at max.
Trying to decide if I want to trade the car or truck. Leaning car cause I tend to take the truck on longer trips. Not sure EV fits for us, company also pays my gas for what I declare as my company vehicle
More people in cities using motorcycles and scooters would have many benefits. Far less parking space would be needed and parking is an enormous hidden expense we all pay for.
I wouldnāt want one if I had to commute on the interstate to work but if it was all city streets, sure.
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clt says e bikes are fun
Distracted drivers makes riding any type of bike on paved roads no bueno
Hydrogen is the way.
So you want to use more electricity to create hydrogen than it outputs when itās burned to power an electric motor instead of simply using the electricity directly?
If our grid canāt handle EVs it certainly canāt handle an all hydrogen electric infrastructure.
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Iāve been riding for over 25 years. Yea drivers are distracted but itās not as bad as people think. Most motorcycle accidents involve alcohol. As a rider there are things you can do to significantly lower the risks. I always laugh when non motorcycle riders talk about the risks to the people they actually do ride them and are far more educated on those risks.
FWIW Iāve had far more close calls in cars than I have my bikes. Likely because when riding a bike Iām significantly more aware of what is happening around me and Iām an even safer rider than I am a driver.