Man I hope things get better but damn you are hanging your hat on 3 guys who haven't even played for us yet?
Fyiā¦Withers did not improve. Charlotte (Lutz) does not develop ābig menā
I hope these new guys are everything as advertisedā¦because it sure seems I have heard this beforeā¦"so and so is the highest recruit in niner historyā¦blahā¦blahā¦blah
Iām not hanging my hat on them. Weāve got proven talent in AnāJuan, DiJuan, Phil Jones, and Shamari. Even if the new recruits arenāt what they are cracked up to be, they can at least provide depth behind a pretty good line-up. I think Shamari is going to be an absolute difference maker. He dominates practice and I canāt wait to see him on the floor. Iāve said before that because of injuries I give Lutz one more year if he canāt win with next yearās squad then he needs to go.
I think that Withers did get better. He developed a jumpshot. He was always a monster on the boards, but he was that much more amazing on the glass his senior year. The only reason his scoring declined his senior year is that DA took all the shots and playing with Eddie Basden makes everyone better. And he got absolutely huge in the weightroom.
Our big men do develop. Did Demarco develop? Like Iāve said before, we havenāt had enough key four-year players to make it seem like we develop our players. Especially big-men as we tend to get most of our bigs from the juco route. Seriously, I canāt remember ever having so many four year guys on a team.
I am not sure about the development of Wilderness. Early in his freshman year, he ran the
baseline and scored from that position. He looked great in the Wake game. I donāt see him
taking scoring from the baseline like he did before. Maybe our oppents have figured it our. I donāt
know. Also, even before the injury, I think his rebounding numbers should be higher.
Having said this, as of now, I think he is the most talented player on the team. Give him
(and Dewhurst) a jump shotā¦then watch out!
I am not sure about the development of Wilderness. Early in his freshman year, he ran the
baseline and scored from that position. He looked great in the Wake game. I don't see him
taking scoring from the baseline like he did before. Maybe our oppents have figured it our. I don't
know. Also, even before the injury, I think his rebounding numbers should be higher.
Having said this, as of now, I think he is the most talented player on the team. Give him
(and Dewhurst) a jump shotā¦then watch out!
Heās been injured the entire season, just has not let on.
I've seen improvement in all of those players over the past few years minus Skeen. Was the point of your post saying that they haven't improved? Sorry if I read that wrong.
Yes, that is what I am referring to. Ish went from leading the ACC in assists as a freshman, to not starting as a Jr. How is that improvement? Paulus went from being a team captain, starter and shooting 46% as a sophomore, to not starting and shooting 38% as a Sr. Ginyard ave 6 ppg while playing 19 mpg as a freshman to ave 6 ppg while playing 28 mpg as a Jr.
These are just some random people that I picked from generally perceived good programs. Itās just not realistic to think that every player gets better at every program.
[QUOTE=Normmm;381420]Yes, that is what I am referring to. Ish went from leading the ACC in assists as a freshman, to not starting as a Jr. How is that improvement? Paulus went from being a team captain, starter and shooting 46% as a sophomore, to not starting and shooting 38% as a Sr. Ginyard ave 6 ppg while playing 19 mpg as a freshman to ave 6 ppg while playing 28 mpg as a Jr.
These are just some random people that I picked from generally perceived good programs. Itās just not realistic to think that every player gets better at every program.[/QUOTE]
Ish smithās A/TO ratio has gotten better year by year though. Ish Smith was timid his frosh year and turnover prone. While he is seeing less minutes, itās due to the fact that heās got a NBA Lottery pick ahead of him in Teague.
[QUOTE=49timesthelovin;381249]Iām not hanging my hat on them. Weāve got proven talent in AnāJuan, DiJuan, Phil Jones, and Shamari. Even if the new recruits arenāt what they are cracked up to be, they can at least provide depth behind a pretty good line-up. I think Shamari is going to be an absolute difference maker. He dominates practice and I canāt wait to see him on the floor. Iāve said before that because of injuries I give Lutz one more year if he canāt win with next yearās squad then he needs to go.
I think that Withers did get better. He developed a jumpshot. He was always a monster on the boards, but he was that much more amazing on the glass his senior year. The only reason his scoring declined his senior year is that DA took all the shots and playing with Eddie Basden makes everyone better. And he got absolutely huge in the weightroom.
Our big men do develop. Did Demarco develop? Like Iāve said before, we havenāt had enough key four-year players to make it seem like we develop our players. Especially big-men as we tend to get most of our bigs from the juco route. Seriously, I canāt remember ever having so many four year guys on a team.[/QUOTE]
Let's see, Paulus actually got progressively better until K brought in Nolan Smith who has more talent. Randolph is in the NBA, same for McRoberts. Thomas was a servicable backup who progressed and the same with Ginyard. Ish Smith has gotten better, is Jamie Skeen even on their team, when you don't play what do you expect? Hansbrough is national player of the year caliber and will be a NBA player, so I don't see where you are going.
I believe Paulus was the starter last year over Smith. Then Smith became the starter this year over Paulus. I would call that regression. Just because they played in the NBA doesnāt mean they became better players. At one time McRoberts was thought to possibly be the over all #1 pick. He ended up going in the 2nd round. Randolph was thought to be a lottery pick, and didnāt even start at times with Duke. If the GM in Philly wasnāt a Duke grad, I really donāt think he would have made the NBA. Just because I say Hansbroughās #s have gone down doesnāt mean that I think heās a bad player. But the fact is his FG%, blocks and steals have all gone down since he was a freshman.
Hate it or not look what Callipari did for Mempiss. Mark Few at Gonzaga. Dana Altman at Creighton. Those guys know how to get players the develop them. When you start winning usually you get more fan support and better players sign up to be on your team, because they know they have a good shot at going to the next level under you.
shavlik randolph is and always has been a turd. Paulus sucks. Wake has some stud players now, but missed on several. Harvey Hale has gone from being a main starter to a deep reserve. This stuff happens at every program.
Ish smith's A/TO ratio has gotten better year by year though. Ish Smith was timid his frosh year and turnover prone. While he is seeing less minutes, it's due to the fact that he's got a NBA Lottery pick ahead of him in Teague.
Agreed. But its gone from 1.6 to 1.8. Not sure exactly what that would break out to be but maybe 1 more assist over 10 games? I would agree more if it went from something like 1.6 to 3.6. What about his FG% going from 43% to 33%?
[QUOTE=Normmm;381427]Agreed. But its gone from 1.6 to 1.8. Not sure exactly what that would break out to be but maybe 1 more assist over 10 games? I would agree more if it went from something like 1.6 to 3.6. What about his FG% going from 43% to 33%?[/QUOTE]
Heās attempted just 66 FGs all year, so not really a telling stat. If you want to mention that you might as well mention how his FT shooting went from 29% to 83% in one year. But hey, weāre talking about freaking bench players. Of course, every program has those that donāt pan out, but you look at those coaches who are proven winners and every year they have guys that step up and take over.
If you arenāt getting top 150 talent all the time, itās about bringing in 4 year guys who can be brought through the program. Give them a little taste of playing time as freshman, a little more as a sophomore, and by the time they are juniors and seniors, they should be starter ready. Winning is also an attitude, you have to establish a winning environment, and then your players will not only expect to win, but will go into games knowing they are going to win.
How's that not the case? Look at Xavier for example, their guys improve year in and year out. Over and SJU, Ahmad Nivins has become a monster. You take a look at the successful coaches, and tell me their players don't improve each year. Even up in Chapel Hell you can see the difference in Lawson's game, and he was a hell of a player before hand.
Look at Jeff Teague for Wake. Did he even play against us last year? Now heās one of the best scorers in the nation. Blake Griffin at Oklahoma, Abrams at Texas, I can keep it going. Honestly, how many players have improved here. Eddie & Lee? Thatās 2 in Lutzās tenure. Lee was a workhorse and so was Eddie. Both those guys put in a lot of individual time on their own.
Coaching is where it is at. It is about a coach getting max potential from his players. Curtis Withers was an absolute beast, do you think we got max potential out of him?
Have you seen us play? [B]There are some high school teams out there that could give us a run for our money.[/B] I'd say there is also a decent chance that we don't even make the A-10 conference tournament.
Yes, that is what I am referring to. Ish went from leading the ACC in assists as a freshman, to not starting as a Jr. How is that improvement? Paulus went from being a team captain, starter and shooting 46% as a sophomore, to not starting and shooting 38% as a Sr. Ginyard ave 6 ppg while playing 19 mpg as a freshman to ave 6 ppg while playing 28 mpg as a Jr.
These are just some random people that I picked from generally perceived good programs. Itās just not realistic to think that every player gets better at every program.
You have to look at more than just numbersā¦look at the talent around them. I agree that Ish hasnāt improved tremendously, but when you have guys like Teague in there that are far more talented, Smith wont be picking up many minutes. Same with Paulus and Nolan Smith. Ish was more of a focal point during his freshman year as was Paulus. With much better talent around them, they arenāt going to get the minutes. That doesnāt always mean that they arenāt improving.
Same thing with Ginyardā¦look at the talent around him as well. Ginyard became a much better offensive player his junior yearā¦although he averaged about the same amount of points as his freshman year, he had more rebounds, assists and steals per game. He also shot better his junior year than his freshman year. You canāt always go by numbers when saying a player improvedā¦when you have better players surrounding him itās not a surprise to see their numbers drop. That doesnāt always mean they arenāt improving. Danny Greenās numbers took a drop in his second year, but does that mean he hasnāt improved?
James Johnsonās numbers are about the same as last yearā¦but I wouldnāt say he hasnāt improved. Smithās TOās per game have droped by 1 each yearā¦I would say that is improvement.
I believe Paulus was the starter last year over Smith. Then Smith became the starter this year over Paulus. I would call that regression. Just because they played in the NBA doesn't mean they became better players. At one time McRoberts was thought to possibly be the over all #1 pick. He ended up going in the 2nd round. Randolph was thought to be a lottery pick, and didn't even start at times with Duke. If the GM in Philly wasn't a Duke grad, I really don't think he would have made the NBA. Just because I say Hansbrough's #s have gone down doesn't mean that I think he's a bad player. But the fact is his FG%, blocks and steals have all gone down since he was a freshman.
Nolan Smith has become a much better player since last yearā¦that doesnāt mean Paulus has regressed. I guess the point iām trying to make is that you have to look past stats when saying a player has improved/regressed. Not every player is going to improve. Hopefully this post makes sense.
Man I hope things get better but damn you are hanging your hat on 3 guys who haven't even played for us yet?
Fyiā¦Withers did not improve. Charlotte (Lutz) does not develop ābig menā
I hope these new guys are everything as advertisedā¦because it sure seems I have heard this beforeā¦"so and so is the highest recruit in niner historyā¦blahā¦blahā¦blah
YES, Withers did improve quite a bit, IMOā¦you guys act as if CW was a McD AA. He was a solid recruit (top 100-150), but not a canāt miss prospect. There was A LOT of debate about how good he was really going to be when he got here as well. Iād say 16-18 points and 9 rebounds (without looking it up) is pretty good and I assure you he couldnāt/didnāt do that as a freshman!
I think there should be excitement for next year, if things go right, we could make the CBI next year (maybe NIT) and hopefully definently the NIT the next year. This program was lucky to make the NCAA tournament has much has it did in the past and historically hasnāt made it there often despite the late 90ās and early 2000-2005. It will take a truely special class to get this program back to the NCAAās and we simply donāt have it right now. But thereās always hope for next year. Those of you expecting us to make the NCAA year in and year out need to adjust your expectations.
Weāre not Duke, UNC, or some other big time program. Weāre Charlotte and we have to hope to get back to making the NCAA tournament once every 4 years, not every year. If you set your expectations at that level it will be hard to ever be disappointed in Bobby. Bobby may not be the best coach and sure he may not have the program where it was 4 years ago, but thats not it his fault. Judy Rose and CHP have never truely supported Bobby the way he deserves and because of that weāve seen Bobbyās morale and passion suffer. He finally got past that last year and barring injuries this year we should have been headed back to the NIT, possibly NCAA if we had two strong 3 point shooters. My point is people have to get over where the program was 4 years ago, itās not going to go back to that, weāre not in that type of a conference to generate that type of excitement. We donāt have the players anymore coming here to play in the A-10, sorry, but we donāt. What we do have is guys who will fight hard every day to win and hopefully weāll see the NCAA tournament, by 2011-2012 if everyone comes here thatās suppost to and lives up to their expectations.
[B]I think there should be excitement for next year, if things go right, we could make the CBI next year (maybe NIT) and hopefully definently the NIT the next year. This program was lucky to make the NCAA tournament has much has it did in the past and historically hasn't made it there often despite the late 90's and early 2000-2005. It will take a truely special class to get this program back to the NCAA's and we simply don't have it right now. But there's always hope for next year. Those of you expecting us to make the NCAA year in and year out need to adjust your expectations. [/B]
Weāre not Duke, UNC, or some other big time program. Weāre Charlotte and we have to hope to get back to making the NCAA tournament once every 4 years, not every year. If you set your expectations at that level it will be hard to ever be disappointed in Bobby. Bobby may not be the best coach and sure he may not have the program where it was 4 years ago, but thats not it his fault. Judy Rose and CHP have never truely supported Bobby the way he deserves and because of that weāve seen Bobbyās morale and passion suffer. He finally got past that last year and barring injuries this year we should have been headed back to the NIT, possibly NCAA if we had two strong 3 point shooters. My point is people have to get over where the program was 4 years ago, itās not going to go back to that, weāre not in that type of a conference to generate that type of excitement. We donāt have the players anymore coming here to play in the A-10, sorry, but we donāt. What we do have is guys who will fight hard every day to win and hopefully weāll see the NCAA tournament, by 2011-2012 if everyone comes here thatās suppost to and lives up to their expectations.
You pointed out Jeff Teague. But you didn't mention Ish Smith or Jamie Skeen. Or what about Greg Paulus, Shavlik Randolph, Bryan Zoubek, Josh McRoberts, Quentin Thomas, Marcus Ginyard? And Hansbrough's FG % has actually gone down, as have his blocks and steals.
It happens everywhere.
What planet do you live on? They must have some incredible drugs there.
Withers was a 4-star recruit rated anywhere between 15-25 best HS PFs. He was a very good player for us, but he wasnāt much better as a senior as he was a sophomore.